Is online poker data mining a form of cheating?

99%evil · #11 (**permalink**) 11-28-2007, 03:14 PM

I guess technically it's not cheating, but if you rely on it for your decisions...then you suck. Period. You don't have this info at a casino, you may be familiar with players styles, but you don't have a real time analysis of your opponents. I think online poker is flawed if everyone has this crap, pretty much for those that are looking to eek out a few more BB per hour... I guess if you consider yourself a pro or semi pro and rely on this info, you might want to think twice if you are really a true poker player or just an odds taker. It turns the game into something else...call me a purest, f---you. Taking notes is fine...you do that in a casino too if you choose...

Same goes for poker stoves and all that BS, if you can't run the numbers in your head...you deserve to be beaten with a crowbar retard.

Flame away losers.

The above is my opinion...f--- off

chipandachair · #12 (**permalink**) 11-28-2007, 05:48 PM

I got to demo some kind of poker winning % thing on Party Poker way back when. It worked like this. When you went to a SNG you could see the winning % of the other players at that table and then decide if you wanted to join that table or not.

C & C

jojobinks · #13 (**permalink**) 11-28-2007, 07:33 PM

those that don't use PT are cheating themselves.

TheMightyJim2k · #14 (**permalink**) 11-28-2007, 07:37 PM

datamining is 100% not cheating on every major site, except for pokerstars where they expressly forbid it and if they find out you are using mining software they can and will ban you.

the rest of the sites pretty much don't care. If it isn't illegal than it isn't cheating.

oh and if you don't use PT, a hud, and datamine where available then you are only hurting yourself.

TheMightyJim2k · #15 (**permalink**) 11-28-2007, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99%evil

I guess technically it's not cheating, but if you rely on it for your decisions...then you suck. Period. You don't have this info at a casino, you may be familiar with players styles, but you don't have a real time analysis of your opponents. I think online poker is flawed if everyone has this crap, pretty much for those that are looking to eek out a few more BB per hour... I guess if you consider yourself a pro or semi pro and rely on this info, you might want to think twice if you are really a true poker player or just an odds taker. It turns the game into something else...call me a purest, f---you. Taking notes is fine...you do that in a casino too if you choose...

Same goes for poker stoves and all that BS, if you can't run the numbers in your head...you deserve to be beaten with a crowbar retard.

Flame away losers.

The above is my opinion...f--- off

this is silly and you know it. And also I can figure out someone's basic pf and flop ranges in live poker after watching them play a few rounds. But having additional information when playing online is obviously a plus, especially when playing 3+ tables.

oh and saying that using stove makes you dumb or something has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard in terms of poker strategy. Learning to understand the equity your hand has vs a range of possible holdings for villains is extremely important to understanding poker theory, strategy, and decision making. Simply put there is no better, easier, or more flexible tool for an individual to study underlying equity behind any decision than poker stove. If you haven't ever used it for analysis of a decision that you made (whether to bet call or fold) then you probably haven't even scratched the surface of understanding the game.

Poboy · #16 (**permalink**) 11-28-2007, 07:42 PM

It's not cheating. It's not cheating to use a power drill to assemble a bookcase instead of cranking your screws by hand either. More information, more hands, more tables, more games, more stakes are all available online versus live poker. Just because you can't do it live doesn't mean it's wrong to do it online.

JM · #17 (**permalink**) 11-28-2007, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMightyJim2k

If it isn't illegal than it isn't cheating.

Along this line of reasoning, and it has nothing to do with online datamining I'm just curious really, if you're playing live and the guy next to you is unintentionally exposing his hole cards to you when he checks them, is it cheating to look at them? I don't think its illegal to do, certainly its unethical, but is it cheating?

littlebu · #18 (**permalink**) 11-28-2007, 11:05 PM

I don't really think it's unethical either. It's your responsibility to protect your hand. If I see someone doing this I tell them once "When you check your cards like that those next to you can see them". If they do it again shame on them and it's free game to look.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM

Along this line of reasoning, and it has nothing to do with online datamining I'm just curious really, if you're playing live and the guy next to you is unintentionally exposing his hole cards to you when he checks them, is it cheating to look at them? I don't think its illegal to do, certainly its unethical, but is it cheating?

beekeeper · #19 (**permalink**) 11-28-2007, 11:36 PM

Does it matter?

Since the technology is available, people will use it. Whether it is ethical or not is a mute point, because you have to adjust to the reality that others use it to their advantage.

legend · #20 (**permalink**) 11-29-2007, 12:07 AM

Bill Belichick uses it, so it must be ethical.