[the3rd]

Originally Posted by jbones

You don't seem to understand that govt regulation is a horrible thing for online poker

Online gambling is different (worse) because it is not regulated in any way

If a lack of regulation makes online gambling worse than the stock market, how can regulation be bad for online poker? Even though casino type gambling is illegal in most of the country, it is still regulated in some form at many levels. Completely unskilled gambling is legal, with very little regulation in every state that has a lotto.

I think of it this way. The major gaming companies in the U.S. are willing to put up with regulation and taxation to get into the online market. They know more about this stuff, including security than all of us put together.

[jbones]

Originally Posted by the3rd

If a lack of regulation makes online gambling worse than the stock market, how can regulation be bad for online poker? Even though casino type gambling is illegal in most of the country, it is still regulated in some form at many levels. Completely unskilled gambling is legal, with very little regulation in every state that has a lotto.

I think of it this way. The major gaming companies in the U.S. are willing to put up with regulation and taxation to get into the online market. They know more about this stuff, including security than all of us put together.

Context ftw.

I meant that poker is worse than the stock market in terms of security (as the context of my post makes obvious). Are home poker games regulated? Regulation is horrible because based on this country's laws the games as we know them can not exist. I'm not positive on this, but for online poker to be legal in most states, pots will have to be capped at $10, and I don't know about you but I don't really want to play NL5.

[hachkc]

Originally Posted by jbones

Context ftw.

I meant that poker is worse than the stock market in terms of security (as the context of my post makes obvious). Are home poker games regulated? Regulation is horrible because based on this country's laws the games as we know them can not exist. I'm not positive on this, but for online poker to be legal in most states, pots will have to be capped at $10, and I don't know about you but I don't really want to play NL5.

Online poker to the best of my knowledge is only illegal in the state of WA. All the recent legislation has been geared to complicating the funding and withdrawl process. As for home games, those laws are highly state dependent from being explicitly illegal to legal as long as they are not operated as business. One common problem for many states is the vagueness of laws regarding home poker games.

[JM]

Originally Posted by the3rd

If a lack of regulation makes online gambling worse than the stock market, how can regulation be bad for online poker?

Because regulation gives you a false sense of security. Think of all the things that are regulated here now (guns, drugs, alcohol, banks, stock market, food) and then think of all the problems that still occur with those things despite their regulation. It won't make it any more secure from cheaters, it will just be one more thing the government gets its hands into that it can screw up, screw over, or get screwed by or more likely all of the above.

[jbones]

Originally Posted by hachkc

Online poker to the best of my knowledge is only illegal in the state of WA. All the recent legislation has been geared to complicating the funding and withdrawl process.

That's because it's impossible for the govt to enforce a ban from playing online.

[luckychick]

I'm not really firm on this position but...

It seems to me that legalization and regulation of online poker would be beneficial. Not because there would be less cheating, or even an outside agency to catch cheaters, but because it would provide legal recourse for anyone who could prove they are cheated. At this point, it's merely the market regulating itself. Some would argue that this is the optimal type of regulation, but as I pointed out before, I'm a pink-hippie-commie Canadian, so <shrug>. Someone persuasive might be able to convince me otherwise.

It seems like the Gaming Commission actually does a decent job compared to some other regulatory agencies, no?

[jbones]

Originally Posted by luckychick

I'm not really firm on this position but...

It seems to me that legalization and regulation of online poker would be beneficial. Not because there would be less cheating, or even an outside agency to catch cheaters, but because it would provide legal recourse for anyone who could prove they are cheated. At this point, it's merely the market regulating itself. Some would argue that this is the optimal type of regulation, but as I pointed out before, I'm a pink-hippie-commie Canadian, so <shrug>. Someone persuasive might be able to convince me otherwise.

It seems like the Gaming Commission actually does a decent job compared to some other regulatory agencies, no?

I really don't know what some of you are talking about. For reference, here are the forms of legalized gambling in the United States:

Introduction of Gambling in the United States

You will notice that it is legal in very few areas, and is very specific about what is legal. How is everyone saying the gov't can regulate online gambling and it will continue? Gambling is illegal! This is like saying the government should regulate drug deals so nobody gets killed. Obviously the stance will change somewhat, but do you really think the government is going to out of the blue say, alright someone got cheated at online poker, time to step in, make gambling completely legal everywhere so we can tax it, and make sure nobody else gets cheated?

[PhilTheThrill14]

Holy irrelevant refernce material Batman!

Do a simple google search of "Is online gambling legal" and you'll get thousand of similar responses:

"In terms of legislation that has gone through either state or federal houses that has told players specifically you can't do it, there really isn't anything on the books"

Show me specific articles of law that state I can't gamble online and I'll start beliveing that it's illegal.

[jbones]

Originally Posted by PhilTheThrill14

Holy irrelevant refernce material Batman!

Do a simple google search of "Is online gambling legal" and you'll get thousand of similar responses:

"In terms of legislation that has gone through either state or federal houses that has told players specifically you can't do it, there really isn't anything on the books"

Show me specific articles of law that state I can't gamble online and I'll start beliveing that it's illegal.

RTFP much?

Gambling is illegal, agreed?

The United States Government isn't going to make gambling legal everywhere because the law was written before online gaming exited, agreed?

Everybody knows that currently only sports betting online is illegal. If you read the thread (or even just the post you responded to), you might have known what I was talking about.

Again, in case you somehow missed it- the entire time we've been discussing what happens if the government tries to regulate online poker.

GG.

[luckychick]

Originally Posted by jbones

I really don't know what some of you are talking about. For reference, here are the forms of legalized gambling in the United States:

Introduction of Gambling in the United States

You will notice that it is legal in very few areas, and is very specific about what is legal. How is everyone saying the gov't can regulate online gambling and it will continue? Gambling is illegal! This is like saying the government should regulate drug deals so nobody gets killed. Obviously the stance will change somewhat, but do you really think the government is going to out of the blue say, alright someone got cheated at online poker, time to step in, make gambling completely legal everywhere so we can tax it, and make sure nobody else gets cheated?

You'll note that I wrote "legislation and regulation". I don't expect the US gov't to make it illegal everywhere, at all... although I suppose it's technically possible. I didn't think that gambling was expressly illegal under federal law, so I went and read your entire link, and it wasn't clear to me what I was supposed to get from it.

Again, I'm no expert, but as I understand it, it is not online gambling that is precisely illegal; the current federal laws that affect online gambling are under the wire transfer act, which has specific exceptions to allow things like horsebetting. Thus far, online gambling has not been granted such an exception. It's the transfer of money/betting across state lines that is illegal, I think. So, if this exemption is added, then the feds have nothing to do with it. For example, I think it is this wire transfer act that makes it impossible for Indian tribes in the US to offer online gambling whereas Canadian tribes (for example) can. It's the transfer of monies and bets across different states, not the actual gambling that is illegal with the feds, (I think ). Again, as I understand it (and I could be wrong) gambling is left to the state. Different states have different rules. Your link proves that certain types of gambling are expressly allowed, and this varies from state to state. The hurdle would be the Wire Transfer Act, and I don't think that the applicability of the act has worked it's way up the entire chain of appeals courts. I *think* that if the WTA weren't in place or were modified, then a state like Nevada would be poised to make a whole lot of money from the entire US. It would be up to them to try and regulate it in a manner similar to how they regulate their current gambling, and surely they would have some catch up to do.

SOooooooooooooooooooooo... yeah, it seems to me that the online thing is relatively new thing that the government has to respond to, and both the federal and state gov'ts need to make up their minds. Since some states are challenging the WTA act and it hasn't made it all the way through the courts, it doesn't seem to me that the issue is cut and dried.

Of course, maybe there is some US federal "gambling is illegal" law I don't know about, in which case, I'd be curious to know about it. (I'm not trying to be facetious or anything here. All my knowledge is just sort of gathered from bits and pieces, and I'm not 100% sure at all. I wasn't sure at all how your link illustrated how all gambling is illegal, but I could have missed something.)

Now, that's just in the US. AP, for example, is based out of Canada, where online gambling is a bit hazy as far I understand it. Express regulation of online gambling, and whether it even falls under existing laws isn't clear. Really, if the legislation in the countries where the gaming is provided is tightened up, online bettors will benefit no matter where they are. Perhaps they don't have recourse for personal reimbursement, but at least they get a sort of umbrella protection. Lots of posters here aren't American....

Anyways, this ended up as a big thread jack, which I didn't mean it to be. I'm sorta curious about the topic. Of course, all of this is sorta dependent on politicians doing something, so yeah, who knows....