[Derf Design]

AP will loose a lot of their customer base and will never be Trusted by the Poker World. However if AP looses all of their customers they will just open a new online card room and everyone will forget about AP.

If their new poker room needs a little extra cash, I'm sure they will find a way to make it.

[jspearm1983]

Originally Posted by jamby

Just remember the old adage grasshopper - buy low, sell high. You might want to consider selling off a bit of that Int'l investment right now and let some sit tight in cash/bonds for a bit, waiting for the inevitable correction.

Cheers.

You might be right, but I'm 24 and can take a huge hit in the 401K and still be fine by the time I'm 50 years old. But, heading your advise, I plan on only investing half of next years deposits in international, and half in domestic stock. but no bonds for me.

[luckychick]

Originally Posted by ipgyst

The sky is not going to fall.

AP is paying everybody back and fixing the problem. Their initial response was pi$$-poor, but that isn't what's going to matter now. A popular online poker room is a $$$-printing-press for its owners. Do you think any of them are going to let this happen to them? No way.

Internet poker is a young (less than 10 yrs old) business, and unregulated (at least by the US govt). I'm surprised something like this hasn't happened before now, and it may always be an issue, but it will be a small one. The real issue with online poker is players who cheat, like that jacka$$ who won the WCOOP then got outed as a cheater.

Meh, maybe I should have been more clear when I said "screwed". I don't think online poker is going to go away; but I do think that this could seriously deter (at least in the short term, say 6 mos to a year or so) the casual player from depositing/continuing to play. Moreover, it is unfortunate ammunition for the morality police.

I'm actually not so worried about the cheating. In fact, the WCOOP example is precisely why I'm not worried. Stars did a routine check-up after the tourney, found the guy was a mult-accounter, and fixed the problem. They did it as a part of their own protocol, and acted promptly.

There are always going to be a few people who are gonna talk to each other on their cells when playing, or mult-account, etc. Just like people show each other cards before folding, or soft-play. Quite frankly, these things give a small edge, but I don't think that it's going to affect my bottom line that much (as opposed, to, say, someone being able to see my hole cards).

What I *really* don't get is why these people were such blatant idiots about the cheating. Seriously. Last week I came across some obviously photoshopped figures in a paper, making it obvious that there was scientific fraud going on. In both cases I thought the same thing: if I was a scammer, I would be soooooooooo much better at it than these idiots. Damn my moral compass (and, oh yeah, lack of a superuser account).

[jamby]

The point of selling and converting some of your gains to bonds/cash is not a long term recommendation. Rather, it's to have a portion of your investments in a somewhat liquid form that you can then take advantage of a securities dip with to buy/reinvest with when low. Future investments notwithstanding, there comes a time when gains should be taken and most experts believe the time is now when it comes to International and global funds. You might want to recall those poor schmucks who were still buying and holding Internet stocks back in 2000 after the run-up.

Originally Posted by jspearm1983

You might be right, but I'm 24 and can take a huge hit in the 401K and still be fine by the time I'm 50 years old. But, heading your advise, I plan on only investing half of next years deposits in international, and half in domestic stock. but no bonds for me.

[ipgyst]

What?!? You mean my $140 per share Storage Networks stock has gone down since 1999? They had like 4 service contracts, 3 employees, and a website! Aw man!

[ipgyst]

BTW, go check pokernews if you get a chance. AP posted a lengthy letter/apology and it's remarkably candid and informative.

1) They know who did it
2) They know which accounts (including some that haven't been outed publicly)
3) The investigation continues
4) They hired some 3rd party consultants to improve their security
5) They are submitting to an audit from their regulating authority
6) They are figuring out who lost what and will refund them (cash and tourneys) plus interest
7) Even people who were just watching the POTRIPPER tourney are getting $500 each (since they were outed in the spreadsheet that was sent out - darnit why wasn't i watching that tourney)
8] They are admitting pretty much everything, including that they messed up after the initial complaints were made public back in September

I'm betting that AP will now be one of the safest places to play online poker, and the whole industry will benefit from the lesson. Just put Serinda Swan in an advertisement saying "We're sorry, but we fixed it, it can't happen again, so deposit some money!" and all will be normal.

[xtwalker]

Originally Posted by jamby

The point of selling and converting some of your gains to bonds/cash is not a long term recommendation. Rather, it's to have a portion of your investments in a somewhat liquid form that you can then take advantage of a securities dip with to buy/reinvest with when low. Future investments notwithstanding, there comes a time when gains should be taken and most experts believe the time is now when it comes to International and global funds. You might want to recall those poor schmucks who were still buying and holding Internet stocks back in 2000 after the run-up.

Don't happen to believe in market timing do you? You are correct in your assertion that there should be efforts made toward asset re-allocaiton and leveling, but not for liquidity purposes to "pick up more in the dips."

May want to pick up some reading by Bogle if you are interested in the subject. (Have some eye drops ready for some dry eyes though)

[jamby]

I don't practice market timing and am primarily a buy and hold investor. I do believe in taking profits though and waiting to reinvest in 'value' priced markets later. Especially from markets that have such huge run-ups as this International one had.

Originally Posted by xtwalker

Don't happen to believe in market timing do you?

[zeno]

The 2+2 Forums: AP, rigged, etc. #8981.4 - the plot thickens

Check the long-ish post by pokerstudAA

Man, this thing is just totally rotten.

[Tosh]

Thanks for the link Zeno. Rotten indeed.