[dad604]

1/2 NL 6 max at Pacific Poker. I am on button with $236 and new guy just sat down on bb with $200.

I got dealt
all fold
I bet $8
sb folds
bb calls

flop
bb checks
I bet $15
bb calls

turn
bb checks
I bet $30
bb calls

river
bb pushes all-in
I instanta call (thinking chop, chop)

He turns over pocket AA's. He could have make me lay itdown any time before the river with any bet or cr.

[osumike11379]

Originally Posted by dad604

1/2 NL 6 max at Pacific Poker. I am on button with $236 and new guy just sat down on bb with $200.

I got dealt
all fold
I bet $8
sb folds
bb calls

flop
bb checks
I bet $15
bb calls

turn
bb checks
I bet $30
bb calls

river
bb pushes all-in
I instanta call (thinking chop, chop)

He turns over pocket AA's. He could have make me lay itdown any time before the river with any bet or cr.

WOW

where was this guy last time I played?

no pre flop raise and checking trip aces not once but twice...wow..

[jmc]

You tricked him into thinking you had AT -- nicely done

[aquaman]

Before the river came were you putting this guy on a straight draw? I know I would have been a bit nervous having those raises called when all I had was a gutshot straight draw. But that's probably why I can't stomach the swings in the .01/.02 NL games.

[dad604]

I was a fish/stupid making that turn bet. I should have checked behind and taken the free card for the gutshot. Making that turn bet give him a chance to push me out with a cr. If I had checked behind he still would have make the all-in river bet.

[littlebu]

I was going to say he should have raised the turn. If I was you I would have checked the turn. But as it turned out NH

Originally Posted by dad604

I was a fish/stupid making that turn bet. I should have checked behind and taken the free card for the gutshot. Making that turn bet give him a chance to push me out with a cr. If I had checked behind he still would have make the all-in river bet.

[reotexas]

Well I guess I am a fish. I don't think it was played that bad. Look at it from the villian's perspective:

You got AA and someone raised pre-flop. You got the best hand, you could raise or call (maybe a small mistake not to re-raise, but if you are going to mix up your play it's okay).

Flop: You have the nuts. Check to the bettor hoping he bets into you. Since the bettor was the button he could have any range of hands or just be bluffing. The opposing player bets into you while you have the nuts. So you call (let him do the raising for you). If you re-raise you could win the pot right there but you might get more money by letting him bet into you. But what is the risk? There are only a few cards which could beat you. Most likely you would put the bettor on two pair, Ace / rag or maybe trips. So unless the bettor catches the case trip card you are probably still going to win.

Turn: You check to the bettor because you still hold the nuts. Bettor bets into you. Do you put the bettor on an inside straight draw? You hope so because over the long haul the bettor will miss the straight draw a lot more times than the bettor will make it.

I would just let the bettor keep betting into my nuts.

River: Well, one of the only cards which can screw you hits. But I still do not put the bettor on an inside straight draw because they probably wouldn't continue bluffing a long-shot so long knowing they are being called every bet.

However, I would not push-all in on the river. A small blocking bet probably would be better just in case the bettor is chasing down to the river with that inside straight draw.

I look at this way--if I have the nuts and someone keeps betting into me so I can disguise my hand I will let them. With these cards very few cards will beat you and if you look at how much you win when the inside straight draw doesn't hit versus how much money you will make when it doesn't you will be money ahead playing this way. But, this assumes you don't push all-in on the river.

Here is how this would play out over time playing from the turn on:

Hitting the inside straight will happen only 9% of the time. That means for every 11 times you play this hand you will see the straight hit 1 time out of 11. So, there is $109 in the pot on the turn. If there are no further bets on the river then I am going to lose $109 every 11 times this hand is played. But I will win $1,109 during the same 11 times because 10 times out of 11 you aren't going to hit your miracle card.

So the question is would you be willing to play the Aces this way knowing 10 times out of 11 you are going to win 10x the amount you could lose?

[dad604]

He was a fish in two ways. He should have cr the turn and he should not have shove all-in on the river. Only a hand that could beat him would call the all-in. The flop check was ok, I would have done the same. I was a fish for betting the turn but lucky he decline to make me lay it down.

[reotexas]

Originally Posted by dad604

He was a fish in two ways. He should have cr the turn and he should not have shove all-in on the river. Only a hand that could beat him would call the all-in. The flop check was ok, I would have done the same. I was a fish for betting the turn but lucky he decline to make me lay it down.

I agree about the all-in. But why check-raise?

You have the nuts and only a few cards can beat you. You are 90% to win the hand with one card to come. If you check-raise what is the chance the opponent will fold? In this case I wouldn't check-raise at all. You have someone betting into you on every street. Why would you check-raise and possibly frighten the person off? If you think you need to win the hand right there then put in a big check-raise. The other reason for check-raising would be to put more money in the pot. But in this case the bettor is betting every street and increasing the bet. He's doing the work for you. If you want money in the pot it's already there.

I guess we differ on the fact that you think he should have pushed and won the pot before seeing the river card. But in the long run you want to see the river because you will make more money. The guy holding the Aces got sucked out on. It happens. But over the long run he is going to make money on this hand. Consider what happens if the bettor didn't have the gutshot.

Who else would be making raises along the way? A bluffer? Yeah, possibly. Any check-raise would immediately make him go away. What about two pair? A check-raise would make them consider you have a set. They might fold too. What about another set of trips? Check-raising them might not have an effect but it could slow the raising/betting down. In most of the hands against the Aces a check-raise is going to push people out of the pot. You don't want that. If someone is willing dumping money into the pot when you are 90% to win the last thing you want to do is run them out of the pot. They are paying you off. Sure they may suck out on you over time but the odds say you are going to win more often than not and you don't want to be short-sighted by pushing someone out on the turn. If someone bets pre-flop, flop, and turn you have a reasonable expectation they are going to put money in on the river and you don't want to miss that.

[tomb1]

Why the check-raise? Because you take your money and go home with all the money you're going to get. After Dad bet on the turn, that was the most he was going to put into the pot unles he hit his straight. Nothing good can happen on the river to get you more money...you'll only lose. (OK, OK, maybe he hits his second pair on the river and pays you off, but that's a remote chance vs. him folding vs. all the other ways you can lose.)