one of the truly great slowplays of all time

Daniel · #21 (**permalink**) 10-04-2007, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish Se7en

The winning hand is a hand that I've seen people over play and make HUGE suckouts on the turn or river. I've lost to it when people pushed it and have taken down my hand when I had it dominated preflop.

if this is K10, I would have to agree with Irish...
In my league, its seems as though K10 is the new AK.....
everyone seems to believe this is a "made" hand and will push hard with it....

xtwalker · #22 (**permalink**) 10-04-2007, 04:32 PM

I'm amazed by this hand... the action is rediculous for both players on every street. I hope you capitalized pretty well on this table JoJo.

For whatever it is worth, think the KT was played horribly here. It's a terrible hand to re-raise with pre-flop. Then on the turn I would sumize that he is generally only getting called by a made flush, a bigger straight (TJ), a set, or a donk with AA or KK. All of those hands are in his opponents possible range based on pre-flop and on the flop action.

He only beats the set and the donk with an overpair (who happened to have the nut flush draw as well in this case. Against the set or the nut flush draw he stands a chance of getting sucked out on, against the other possible hands, which are usually far more likely to be making the 3rd bet, he is drawing dead.

monkeydog · #23 (**permalink**) 10-04-2007, 06:11 PM

Maybe I am too much of a rookie but with the reraise preflop can you put the idiot with k10 on a hand other than JJ QQ or KK???? And if that is the range you put him on do you really fold to his aggresion on the turn? If villain had flat called the raise preflop you would have to open his range to small pp, sc's or tt and then be able to get away on the turn...but a reraise preflop? I would have a hard time putting him on anything other than a high pp MAYBE AK...thinking I would have got felted here

.

jojobinks · #24 (**permalink**) 10-04-2007, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeydog

Maybe I am too much of a rookie but with the reraise preflop can you put the idiot with k10 on a hand other than JJ QQ or KK???? And if that is the range you put him on do you really fold to his aggresion on the turn? If villain had flat called the raise preflop you would have to open his range to small pp, sc's or tt and then be able to get away on the turn...but a reraise preflop? I would have a hard time putting him on anything other than a high pp MAYBE AK...thinking I would have got felted here

.

without additional information on the guy that range is way too tight. there are two obvious hands, for instance (KQ spades and 99) that have you drawing dead. in addition, the big raise on the turn supercedes, as far as usefulness of information, the preflop action.

again, this is assuming he's a good player (which we should do with unknowns)...why would he raise that turn card with just JJ-KK? the problem is that we have one pair and there are 7783 hands that have us dead/near dead.

Daniel · #25 (**permalink**) 10-04-2007, 06:37 PM

All this technical talk is making me weary of playing in tonite's P* tourny =(
I dont wanna get yelled at for horrible play....

jojobinks · #26 (**permalink**) 10-04-2007, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel

All this technical talk is making me weary of playing in tonite's P* tourny =(
I dont wanna get yelled at for horrible play....

I promise nothing.

also, i won't be there. the famed uw85 game is tonight wheeee!

Daniel · #27 (**permalink**) 10-04-2007, 07:22 PM

im not in the know of the uw85 jojo, enlighten a heathen.

is it a "brick & mortar" game @ uw's crib?

monkeydog · #28 (**permalink**) 10-04-2007, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jojobinks

without additional information on the guy that range is way too tight. there are two obvious hands, for instance (KQ spades and 99) that have you drawing dead. in addition, the big raise on the turn supercedes, as far as usefulness of information, the preflop action.

again, this is assuming he's a good player (which we should do with unknowns)...why would he raise that turn card with just JJ-KK? the problem is that we have one pair and there are 7783 hands that have us dead/near dead.

I am confused...we assume he is a good player(i agree with thinking unknowns are good until proven) then we think he is going to repop it preflop to 12xbb with less then a premium hand?? Yes it is a draw heavy board and needs a flop bet...but fold the turn? with limpers yes with a reraise that big preflop it screams big pair and that he is raising the scare card maybe kk with the K of spades...

TheMightyJim2k · #29 (**permalink**) 10-04-2007, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeydog

I am confused...we assume he is a good player(i agree with thinking unknowns are good until proven) then we think he is going to repop it preflop to 12xbb with less then a premium hand?? Yes it is a draw heavy board and needs a flop bet...but fold the turn? with limpers yes with a reraise that big preflop it screams big pair and that he is raising the scare card maybe kk with the K of spades...

6max NL online is much more aggressive preflop. People do not always need a big pocket pair or AK to reraise preflop. I a lot of players focus on iso-raising bad players preflop with solid hands. The point is to get HU with a very poor postflop player with a hand that is in decent shape against their range assuming that they will make big mistakes postflop. My guess is that jetset isn't so tight preflop that a raise by him means QQ+ and AK. So reraising with KTs to get HU postflop with position is probably good if jetset plays very badly postflop. If this hand is any indication, he plays horribly postflop.

if the player who won this hand had this goal in mind when he reraised preflop with the KTs, I would say he played it very well.

monkeydog · #30 (**permalink**) 10-04-2007, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMightyJim2k

6max NL online is much more aggressive preflop. People do not always need a big pocket pair or AK to reraise preflop. I a lot of players focus on iso-raising bad players preflop with solid hands. The point is to get HU with a very poor postflop player with a hand that is in decent shape against their range assuming that they will make big mistakes postflop. My guess is that jetset isn't so tight preflop that a raise by him means QQ+ and AK. So reraising with KTs to get HU postflop with position is probably good if jetset plays very badly postflop. If this hand is any indication, he plays horribly postflop.

if the player who won this hand had this goal in mind when he reraised preflop with the KTs, I would say he played it very well.

me and my level 1 thinking!