[shanghai_sparky]

I will admit that I am not the best NL cash game player. In fact, I am lousy.

Constructive criticism is welcome.
Please identify which hand you are commenting on.

PokerStars Game #12260780324: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2007/09/25 - 11:35:59 (ET)Table 'Pompeja IV' 9-max
Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: basje81 ($20.40 in chips)
Seat 2: TyranuZ ($20.55 in chips)
Seat 3: MojstrMiha ($26.30 in chips)
Seat 4: JC PAWW ($5.75 in chips)
Seat 5: minim@list ($5.80 in chips)
Seat 6: fold_a_pair ($12.75 in chips)
Seat 7: Phung1s ($15 in chips)
Seat 8: judda33 ($6 in chips)
Seat 9: pell555 ($8.40 in chips)
basje81: posts small blind $0.10
TyranuZ: posts big blind $0.25
Phung1s: posts big blind $0.25
judda33: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to fold_a_pair [Jc Td]
MojstrMiha: folds
JC PAWW: calls $0.25
minim@list: raises $0.50 to $0.75
fold_a_pair: calls $0.75
Phung1s: folds judda33: folds pell555: folds basje81: folds
TyranuZ: calls $0.50
JC PAWW: calls $0.50
*** FLOP *** [4h Qd Kc]
TyranuZ: checks
JC PAWW: bets $0.25
minim@list: calls $0.25
fold_a_pair: raises $3.75 to $4
TyranuZ: folds
JC PAWW: calls $3.75
minim@list: calls $3.75
*** TURN *** [4h Qd Kc] [9h]
JC PAWW: bets $1 and is all-in
minim@list: calls $1
fold_a_pair: raises $1 to $2
minim@list: calls $0.05 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [4h Qd Kc 9h] [8h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***

This next hand, I was worried about the flush possibility because of the small bet on the turn. The small river bet was meant to induce a big raise.

PokerStars Game #12260836792: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2007/09/25 - 11:40:32 (ET)
Table 'Pompeja IV' 9-max
Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: basje81 ($20.90 in chips)
Seat 2: 1vice1 ($5 in chips)
Seat 3: MojstrMiha ($25.80 in chips)
Seat 5: Snuwerd ($36.85 in chips)
Seat 6: fold_a_pair ($24.80 in chips)
Seat 7: neo259 ($5.50 in chips)
Seat 8: judda33 ($5.50 in chips)
fold_a_pair: posts small blind $0.10
neo259: posts big blind $0.25
1vice1: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to fold_a_pair [Kh Qc]
judda33: folds
basje81: calls $0.25
1vice1: checks
MojstrMiha: folds Snuwerd: folds
fold_a_pair: calls $0.15
neo259: checks
*** FLOP *** [9s 4s Qs]
fold_a_pair: bets $1
neo259: folds
basje81: calls $1
1vice1: folds
*** TURN *** [9s 4s Qs] [Ks]
fold_a_pair: checks
basje81: bets $0.50
fold_a_pair: calls $0.50
*** RIVER *** [9s 4s Qs Ks] [Qd]
fold_a_pair: bets $2
basje81: raises $17.15 to $19.15 and is all-in
fold_a_pair: calls $17.15
*** SHOW DOWN ***

[PhilTheThrill14]

Quick assessment while at work....

Hand 1 - fold preflop.

Hand2 - Not sure I would have called the bet once the flush "hit". But after that you were pretty much ok.

[jojobinks]

hand one: fold preflop. i don't recommend that you call raises with mediocre hands very often. this is a hand that makes a bad top pair, and once in a long while a straight. most of the time you'll not like the flop well.

on the flop, you raised so much that you guaranteed you'd get called by a better hand (which is what happened). then you got lucky and sucked out. if you want to raise, raise the pot. then if you get called you know you're beat for now. then if you hit, you can put in more money, and if not not. but by making that huge raise...urgh.

hand two is mostly fine. you had some different choices on all streets, but you played it good.

PS: don't post results with your hands. b/c then... we look at the results. if you don't show your villains hands we can be a little more objective.

[shanghai_sparky]

Originally Posted by PhilTheThrill14

Quick assessment while at work....

Hand 1 - fold preflop.

Agreed, but I tend to favor J-10 too much.

Originally Posted by PhilTheThrill14

Hand2 - Not sure I would have called the bet once the flush "hit". But after that you were pretty much ok.

I was river fishing at that point, almost committed and it was only 50 cents into a large pot.
I don't know how much I would have called. A huge bet could have been a bluff.

[Poboy]

Hand 1, obv. fold preflop. I also don't like the flop raise. That's a pretty dry board, but has big cards. What does a raise accomplish?

Hand 2 is okay. I'm not folding to that min bet ever.


second the no results

[shanghai_sparky]

OP edited to remove the results for those that have yet to see the post.
They will be added later.

[Clipper]

Hand 1: Should have folded before flop. Never call a raise with a trash hand like this unless there are 4-5 players in the pot and you are acting on button or in the blinds. Also, another condition is that you need a large stack (at least 150x BB, preferably more)

Hand 2: Against micro-limit players (who tend to be loose and passive; ie. "calling stations"), you should raise with before the flop with the KQ against a lone limper and a posted blind. This is so weak - the action to you that is. You likely have the best hand, and you want to bet it for value. If you don't connect with the flop, just bet the pot on the flop no matter what comes (unless the ace, they will almost always see a flop with an ace). If they call, check-fold from there. Most likely, the flop has missed him unless he has a A or K of spades (he has a draw). By the way, if the limper reraises, fold immediately (he likely has AA or KK). I would raise it up to $2-2.50 and make him pay dearly to see the flop (the larger bet is needed to get him to fold - he does not likely know any better so it takes more convincing). I want this pot headup if a caller; the larger bet accomplishes this. If he calls, and the flop comes with 3-to-a-suit, I do not like this. But I have top pair and a very good kicker.in reality, he does not likely have 2 spades in his hand (and he may very well not even have 1 spade). I would be more apt to keep the pot small though as it will be difficult to escape if you escalate the pot size on flop and turn. Here I bet 2/3 of the pot on the flop (charge him to draw). If he calls, plan to check-call on river if a spade does not come. My hand is good enough to pick off a bluff, or a stubborn underpair. So give these hands a chance to pay you off.

In a higher limit game, I would take a completely different approach. Here I would, most of the time just call preflop. I am out of position against moderately skilled opposition. This is why the old argument that "you are better off learning at lower limits" is invalid. I would check the flop since I have 1 pair hand with a scary board in multiway pot. The mix of players at microstakes requires total different strategy than higher limits. In the higher limit game I would basically be done with the hand, in as far as putting any significant money in pot. I would make a 1/2 pot sized bet on turn if flop was checked around. And plan to check-call the river - unless an allin or something happened.

[Clipper]

Supplement: I would bet the pot above if I missed the flop, and be done with it if he called (barring weak bets of 1/3 pot or less or check on turn). With top pair I would proceed as described by betting 2/3 of pot, and check-call on river.

[jojobinks]

clipper's just recommended that you raise KQo out of position against calling stations. for all you kids at home...don't.

calling stations limp in with any pair and call a raise. calling stations limp in with any ace and then call a raise. you don't want to be out of position against a passive player with a mediocre hand.

this point is demonstrated by his recommendations for after the flop. he recommends that you auto-cbet the pot on the flop (against a calling station, remember) and then check fold the turn. in effect, we'll have put in 4xbb before the flop plus 8bb on the flop = 12 bb into the pot while out of position against a player that's likely to call with a wide variety of hands. then we give up on the turn. if you follow this advice you'll find yourself pumping up pots and then giving up on them several times an hour and wondering why you have no chips.

do you see why this is bad advice?

clips previous advice, which mysteriously doesn't match the advice on this hand, is more accurate. without reads, why bother bluffing with a mediocre hand? look to make a good hand and then get value from it. don't bluff players you don't know can fold.

edit: oops: i see we have position. this makes the recommendation slightly less bad. but still bad.

[smoore]

1) beautiful. That's why you play JT to a small raise.

2) WTF? Fold that river man. What are you beating? A king, the case queen? You don't even beat any of the straights I might have missed reading the hand!



2a) after reading the thread and going back over it: Yeah, you boned the turn and river here. Your flop bet should have told you, "OK, I'm mostly done with this hand." Instead, the turn spade hit and you KNEW you were sunk. Once the villian got you for a min-bet, he pushed on the next card. What are you beating?