[dad604]

Check this link out and also there is discussion at RGP on this also by a respected member "FellKnight." After reading the post by FK, I kinda believe this story. It was FK's buddy that apparently was ripped off by one of the AP's pro part owner Mark Seif.

The 2+2 Forums: Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)

[links_slayer]

Isn't it all rigged?

Thanks for the link...that's very interesting.

[TheMightyJim2k]

I didn't check out the link, but there is definitely a lot of speculation from very respected high limit pros that someone has hacked the AP system. The speculation and evidence was getting so damning that the Mods at 2p2 moved the thread to the mod forums so that the cheaters couldn't potentially read the evidence and get away before getting caught.

The good news is that whomever has this info is obviously not wasting time in the low to mid limits, the bad news is that if this story breaks it is going to really hurt online poker's credibility.

I've been following the thread since it started, and the latest update by one of the mods at 2p2 told us that they felt very strongly that someone was playing as if they could see all of the hole cards in the high limit games. Also a high limit pro added that he remembered talking to an AP software developer that said their was an "omniscient" client/player that the developers built into the system in order to bug-fix the software. This client was able to see all hole cards in order to check how things were working with the software.

Obviously if a hacker gained access or a malevolent former programmer decided to take advantage of this we all know what would happen. It is looking more and more likely that the question is not whether or not someone was cheating with access to the hole cards, but how they were doing it.

we shall see what happens...

[Poboy]

Not sure about that link, but I've seen HH's that there's no way the guy didn't know his opponents' cards.

[Chipmunk]

I read a few pages but there was too much spam to bother reading it all. The one tourney HH where a guy calls an river all in with T-high against bluffers 9-high was sick. But isn't it possible that they had some old fashioned collusion going on instead of super user accounts? I mean a cheater would be pretty dumb to do that since it would seem awfully strange, but if two people teamed up in the tourney and made some arrangements and discussed their hole cards then it would make slightly more sense.

Those high stakes limit & NL games seemed more like cheating, but I'm no expert on this.

[Poboy]

Originally Posted by Chipmunk

I read a few pages but there was too much spam to bother reading it all. The one tourney HH where a guy calls an river all in with T-high against bluffers 9-high was sick. But isn't it possible that they had some old fashioned collusion going on instead of super user accounts? I mean a cheater would be pretty dumb to do that since it would seem awfully strange, but if two people teamed up in the tourney and made some arrangements and discussed their hole cards then it would make slightly more sense.

Those high stakes limit & NL games seemed more like cheating, but I'm no expert on this.

The HHs I've seen are cash and tourney, with different opponents. Whoever it is did chip dump to another account on occasion.

[dad604]

Below is copied from RGP:

> > > And perhaps most damning: An infinite river aggression factor???
> >
> > > Seriously. That cannot be explained away. That means that this account
> > > NEVER EVER called on the river. He ONLY raised or folded. These
accounts
> > > can see their opponents' cards. There is no other possible explanation!
> >
> > > Fell
> >
> > There does seem to be a lot of evidence here, I've found PT stats in the
links
> > you posted of other players with similar stats. Gosh why would they be so
> > obvious? I tell you what, if you give me a program that lets me see
everyone's
> > cards, I will kill the games, and I will do it in a way that nobody will
ever
> > catch on. Why kill the golden goose like this?
> >
> > The fact that it's so blatant makes me think it's some kind of a hack, and
they
> > want to cash instantly as much as possible. But the part-owner being
involved
> > would seem to indicate something else.
> >
> > I like how 2+2 moves the thread to the mod forum.
> >
> Hate to sound like an idiot, but can someone explain these stats in
> layman's terms.

That's ok jachomo. I'll explain it to you. And no, it still doesn't mean
that you were right about your threads.

There are several account playing the upper limits on Absolute. Many
different players keep stats automatically. They got suspicious and
compared notes. Basically:

- These special accounts are seeing the flop about 85%+ of the time. They
are raising and reraising about half that time.

- They get more and more aggressive as the hand progresses (i.e. as more
information is available). These accounts have only ever called a bet on
the river when the bet is all-in to them and they have the best hand.
Every single other time they are raising and re-raising, or folding...
Never ever calling. This is alone a smoking A-bomb.

- THEY ARE NEVER WRONG. NOT ONCE. They make a big all-in call preflop
after 4 raises with A2s against KT. With Ten high on the turn against a 9
high bluff. 2nd pair on the flop against a draw. Never wrong.

- These accounts are winning an average of 100+BB/100 hands. That's like
winning a full BANKROLL every 3 hours.

Fell

[200 Motels]

That's pretty insane. Didn't UB just recently merge with AP?

[Big Mike]

I'm on page 17 of the 2p2 thread, all i can say is WOW.

[dad604]

One of those super accounts is supposed to belong to Mark Seif, one of the part owner pro of AP.

AP and UB are the same organization now. You can transfer funds freely between the two sites now too.