[links_slayer]

Originally Posted by Devilboy

Let's say you're on the button with a short stack in a satelite tournament. Top 5 players get entries to some WSOP tournament or something, 6th place gets nothing. There's 6 players left and 2 people in front of you has gone all in. Fold your AA and guarantee yourself a ticket. Since 5th pays the same as 1st you don't need to accumulate any more chips, you just need to outlast one player.

Having 2 players all-in in front of you does not necessarily guarantee a ticket to the WSOP in this situation. Unless I'm way off here, one player could have the other covered and the shorter stack could win the hand, leaving both with chips.

The only reason I chimed in here is because this happened to me in a freeroll this past fall. 8 players left, 7 get paid. I get rockets in the SB and two players push. I fold after some serious deliberation. The smaller of the 2 stacks doubles up and we're still at 8 players. I get busted out the next hand...the rest belongs in another forum.

[jdunford]

Originally Posted by Devilboy

When to fold AA pre-flop:

Let's say you're on the button with a short stack in a satelite tournament. Top 5 players get entries to some WSOP tournament or something, 6th place gets nothing. There's 6 players left and 2 people in front of you has gone all in. Fold your AA and guarantee yourself a ticket. Since 5th pays the same as 1st you don't need to accumulate any more chips, you just need to outlast one player.

In cash games it cannot be correct to fold AA pre-flop.

Good point. Didn't think of satellite tournaments, where all the prizes are the same. Even on the bubble of a regular tournament, where the prizes are (e.g.) inversely proportional to finishing position, I wouldn't fold AA preflop. It's a good opportunity to double (or even triple) up, potentially moving me 1 or 2 places up the ladder, and increasing my probability of winning the tournament.

I think it's funny that you quote Harrington as saying "never fold KK" right after giving an example of when to fold AA. Harrington didn't think he needed to say "never fold AA"; it's implied.

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by jdunford

Good point. Didn't think of satellite tournaments, where all the prizes are the same. Even on the bubble of a regular tournament, where the prizes are (e.g.) inversely proportional to finishing position, I wouldn't fold AA preflop. It's a good opportunity to double (or even triple) up, potentially moving me 1 or 2 places up the ladder, and increasing my probability of winning the tournament.

I think it's funny that you quote Harrington as saying "never fold KK" right after giving an example of when to fold AA. Harrington didn't think he needed to say "never fold AA"; it's implied.

folding AA in that satellite situation is a given. in fact, if you have TONS of chips in that satellite, you shouldn't even open the pot with AA. why would you? you risk many chips and stand to win few.

clearly in that situation your goal is to not bust (as opposed to collecting chips). you go about not busting by not playing.

[Bano]

Realistically, with this question it is difficult to generalize. Odds are in your favor but this is where stack size and reading your opponents take effect. Besides you have a 11.8% chance of getting another K in the next three cards if someone did have the AA.

Hell, I'd call....

[Quads]

Yes, several times.
The most recent that comes to mind was while sitting in a relatively deep stack $5/10 NL game. Average stack ~5 dimes. I'm sitting next to the G-spot (cut-off). FTA opens for $40, fold, MP makes it $90, fold to me, I make it $490 with K/K, G-Spot (button) makes it $1400. 40 folds, 90 calls, I fold.

They go to the flop with all of 90's chips in the middle (he has ~1800)
90 turns over Q/Q
1400 turns over A/A. HHIG.

Why did I fold?
1400 is a player I know well, he is extremely aggressive, and a very tight position player. His bet said he wanted to go heads up and he had A/A.
I couldn't beat A/A, and gladly got out of the way.

[monkeydog]

Originally Posted by Quads

Yes, several times.
The most recent that comes to mind was while sitting in a relatively deep stack $5/10 NL game. Average stack ~5 dimes. I'm sitting next to the G-spot (cut-off). FTA opens for $40, fold, MP makes it $90, fold to me, I make it $490 with K/K, G-Spot (button) makes it $1400. 40 folds, 90 calls, I fold.

They go to the flop with all of 90's chips in the middle (he has ~1800)
90 turns over Q/Q
1400 turns over A/A. HHIG.

Why did I fold?
1400 is a player I know well, he is extremely aggressive, and a very tight position player. His bet said he wanted to go heads up and he had A/A.
I couldn't beat A/A, and gladly got out of the way.

So it was very player specific? What if same situation but unknown player?

[jldecarlo]

I folded KK preflop yesterday in Shreveport.

1/2 NL. I had KK OTB. There were a few limpers and then a guy in late postion raises to $15, I reraise to $50. Folded around to him.

He asks how much I have. I count a little less than $100. He has me covered and goes all-in, immediately flipping his aces. I fold and show my kings.

Admitedly, this story is kind of cheating. I KNEW without any doubt that I was beaten, making the fold pretty easy. But I did fold KK preflop.

L

[Quads]

Originally Posted by monkeydog

So it was very player specific? What if same situation but unknown player?

I still fold.
Some of it is player specific, other is just getting rid of the 2nd best hand. There are better spots to pick where you are leading the hand.

[Quads]

Originally Posted by jldecarlo

I KNEW without any doubt that I was beaten, making the fold pretty easy. But I did fold KK preflop.

L

That's what's so important to understand. If you think you are beat, get rid of the hand. Don't get married to a hand only to get broke on it.

[bmk67]

Originally Posted by monkeydog

Have you ever folded KK preflop? And if so what level and why?

Yes. NL200 online. I raise to $6 UTG, all fold, tight opponent reraises to $15 out of big blind, I reraise to $45, 4 bets it up to $160. We both had about $400 before the hand started. I had never seen this guy so much as 3 bet preflop over a thousand or so hands and without a better read, I'm giving him credit for AA.

There's been times when I wished I folded KK preflop, but had no good reason to.