[Savior17]

Originally Posted by Hopin2Steal

But SB is already down to 1060 and time left at 25/50 is unspecified. At 25/50, he's at 14-15 rounds. But if limits are going to jump to 50/100 soon, SB is going to need really good hands to call as bets will start going to 300 -400 and his M ratio falls to 7. Better to limp in with suited K10 and see what happens. I have no issue with the SB's play.

As has been stated, betting more than 200 may have prevented the call as call to pot ratio dropped to 1.66:1 and then 1.54:1 with bets of 250 and 300 respectively. (Not to mention he's then down to 700-800 chips if he misses the flop).

I failed to realize that this is P* structure. I am used to FTP structure. I think there is a slight diff. With 1060, I can definitely hang around a bit since I would be on the button and in LP shortly.

[hachkc]

I think limping with KTs in the SB with only 1060 against the big stack that limped UTG and a TAG that raised in EP at the 25/50 level is not the smartest move. Its a reasonable expectation that you'll see a 3 way flop. Now if the raiser is planning on a Stop-N-Go, that might be fine as the stakes are about right but that's best played heads up and not a 3 way pot that includes the big stack. I'm surprised the big stack folded here given he was getting 3.5:1 to see the flop in a 3 way hand.

KTs is easily dominated by a number of hands and short of flopping top two, a flush or str8, you can easily be behind when you hit the flop. If I fold here, I get to see like 7 more hands for free instread of dropping 20% of my chips on a marginal hand where I'm OOP against a TA raiser in EP.

[Savior17]

Originally Posted by hachkc

KTs is easily dominated by a number of hands and short of flopping top two, a flush or str8, you can easily be behind when you hit the flop. If I fold here, I get to see like 7 more hands for free instread of dropping 20% of my chips on a marginal hand where I'm OOP against a TA raiser in EP.

I agree. I don't run all of the mathematical models - I am no grinder and don't play enough - but I will be in position for the next few hands. I don't like the SB call here.

I didn't mean to shift the focus, Brett.

[BrettButter]

No worry about shifting the focus, I love to see the different things that spur from these situations. They have a tendency to bring in other factors and variables that would change the hand, and I like to see responses to that too.

I play pretty ABC poker in those tournaments, and they're not too hard to cash in. I just have a habit of getting a little unlucky more than I feel that I should.

As far as actually being a TAG, that's my own impression of myself. To someone else it may look differently, and I'm not really sure what the people here have pegged me as.

[littlebu]

This is a $6.50 turbo. The majority of the cometition doesn't think even remotely close to this.

Originally Posted by Savior17

Does anyone else have concern over the SB's call here with KTs with a raise from TAG UTG+1?? If I am reading Brett as TAG, I have him raising with top ten, maybe a small pair or SC (not likely).
To AA and KK, SB is about a 5 to 1 dog.
To QQ and JJ, SB is about a 2.7 to 1 dog.
To TT, SB is about a 2.1 to 1 dog.
To 99 or under, SB is about a 1.2 to 1 dog.
You see where I am going....

Am I putting him on too tight of an array? Any thoughts are helpful.
Thanks

[w16227]

Not too tight - just that YOU ( and BB) are actually thinking.

KTs is really not a hand that you want to CALL with from the SB - even on the button with position.

The level ($6) and turbo effect reult in some major loose play at these tables. Turbo tournaments are fun, but can teach bad habits - like calling from the SB with KTs after a limp-raise.

If there are a couple of limpers and you have this on the button, a raise is a decent agressve play with KTs - not for the hand value, but to try and pick up the dead money in the pot. Riskier move in a turbo, as you may run into the early limper with aa/kk more often (people need to get paid off quick in a turbo so theyfancy play syndrom takes over a lot).

Originally Posted by Savior17

Does anyone else have concern over the SB's call here with KTs with a raise from TAG UTG+1?? If I am reading Brett as TAG, I have him raising with top ten, maybe a small pair or SC (not likely).
To AA and KK, SB is about a 5 to 1 dog.
To QQ and JJ, SB is about a 2.7 to 1 dog.
To TT, SB is about a 2.1 to 1 dog.
To 99 or under, SB is about a 1.2 to 1 dog.
You see where I am going....

Am I putting him on too tight of an array? Any thoughts are helpful.
Thanks

[BrettButter]

Originally Posted by w16227

Not too tight - just that YOU ( and BB) are actually thinking.

KTs is really not a hand that you want to CALL with from the SB - even on the button with position.

The level ($6) and turbo effect reult in some major loose play at these tables. Turbo tournaments are fun, but can teach bad habits - like calling from the SB with KTs after a limp-raise.

If there are a couple of limpers and you have this on the button, a raise is a decent agressve play with KTs - not for the hand value, but to try and pick up the dead money in the pot. Riskier move in a turbo, as you may run into the early limper with aa/kk more often (people need to get paid off quick in a turbo so theyfancy play syndrom takes over a lot).

If it makes you feel better, I have developed a different game that I play in these turbos than I do in other tournaments, ring tables, etc.

I suppose it might be from the same style, but I tweaked it once I found out what got the best results at the level. Limping here is virtually a non-option for me, especially at this table. 4-5 people are bound to limp behind, especially with the blinds only at 25/50. Jacks are a horrible hand to see 5-ways to a flop, even on that flop.

It's so incredibly hard to knock out people with flush draws in these things too (I find the same things in low level ring games..)

[Savior17]

I find that playing a TAG game in turbos works well. I have pretty good hand matrix that I follow (with changes based on the table, etc.) that works for std and turbo SNGs. If I start to vary too much and make loose calls and fall into a "bad habit", my game tanks.
I also get sick when there is a showdown and see the hole cards that some of these nuts are calling raises with (Arag, one gappers, etc.) at the lower levels (which is what I mostly play online). It is so hard to put some of the players on a hand. They can be betting like top pair, 2 pair or big draw and then flip over AK with just an Ace high. Incredible.