Play through this hand with me

BrettButter · #11 (**permalink**) 05-17-2007, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coyote

to the OP, folding top set here would be awful, just awful.

I'm open to thinking about every possibility, and I like to see the reasons that people give for actions. Folding is not completely out of my mind, but I think it's extremely hard to do.

If I fold, I'm still in the tournament. I had only 200 chips in the pot. There's reasons for me to think about folding. Might as well weigh all of the options.

hachkc · #12 (**permalink**) 05-17-2007, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coyote

Really??? My first instinct is exactly the opposite. Although I think I see where you're coming from.... 13 outs (actually 12 right? Unless your counting the 3 Kings as an out) it's not too far from a coinflip and you can always reload in a cash game whereas in the tourney, when you're out, you're out...

Is that your line on this?

to the OP, folding top set here would be awful, just awful.

yep, only 12 outs (I did 9 flush + 4 str8 and forgot the dup'd 9)

EDIT
<ignore section below, misread post>I'm not a huge fan of a push on draw in a tourney unless I'm a bit more desperate. That being said, he is the big stack, 1st into the pot and a relatively non-scary board so the plays not bad. If he misses, he still has a decent stack (1560) while if he wins, he's got a large stack relative to the table (not quite 3:1). If positions are reversed and brett pushes 1st, then he can't call IMO (860 to win 1400 or so); no fold equity but being 1st in with a big draw is much better.

It just seems early in a tourney to do this plus tourney chips are just so much more valuable.
<ignore>

PhilTheThrill14 · #13 (**permalink**) 05-17-2007, 11:18 AM

Nothing to really think about here. It's just a tough "beat". Move on and keep playing good poker. Focusing on a hand like this is useless - serves no purpose. You played the hand exactly the way you should - you got your money in ahead.

w16227 · #14 (**permalink**) 05-17-2007, 01:40 PM

$6 = turbo?

We gotta drag you away from these bad boys, they are fun, but teach you to play a lot "faster" than you need.

Ok -

gotta raise to more than 150

150 does not give the BB enough reason to fold (100 into a 375 pot), and the limper has some reason to stay around too. The turbo game will probably be an action generator too - and you would rather take this down right nor or isolate the limper - or at least clear the field to the button so that you have position. Raise to like 300.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettButter

This is going to seem like a simple hand, but I guess I did something wrong..

PokerStars Game #9936253202: Tournament #50401432, $6.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2007/05/16 - 00:07:59 (ET)
Table '50401432 1' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Da Sha (1420 in chips)
Seat 2: eggi1911 (3240 in chips)
Seat 3: BrettButter (1680 in chips)
Seat 5: LogicTrap (1415 in chips)
Seat 6: CardMastaD. (1760 in chips)
Seat 7: Sutednbooted (1620 in chips)
Seat 8: Arndt (1305 in chips)
Seat 9: SuperDonR (1060 in chips)
SuperDonR: posts small blind 25
Da Sha: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to BrettButter [Jh Jc]
eggi1911: calls 50

Action is on me. I'm a TAG, if people are paying attention. My first instinct is to raise to 200. My second instinct is to raise to 150.

hachkc · #15 (**permalink**) 05-17-2007, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by w16227

$6 = turbo?

We gotta drag you away from these bad boys, they are fun, but teach you to play a lot "faster" than you need.

Ok -

gotta raise to more than 150

150 does not give the BB enough reason to fold (100 into a 375 pot) . . .Raise to like 300.

Actually it was raised to 200 (50 + 150) so the BB has to call 150 but its all theoretical at this point as the SB called, BB folded and limper folded surprisingly getting over 3:1 and was the big stack at the table.

MAJOR EDIT
I totally misread this post thinking that the big stack (3240) eggi was the one you played against when in reality it was a shorter stack (1060) SuperDon. I have absolutely no issue with his push on the flop though his call in the SB is definitely questionable with KTs and EP limper and raiser. You both played it right after the flop but he won, life sucks.

coyote · #16 (**permalink**) 05-17-2007, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettButter

I'm open to thinking about every possibility, and I like to see the reasons that people give for actions. Folding is not completely out of my mind, but I think it's extremely hard to do.

If I fold, I'm still in the tournament. I had only 200 chips in the pot. There's reasons for me to think about folding. Might as well weigh all of the options.

Meh. He'd have to flip up his cards and show me the T9, otherwise I'm beating him into the pot. Honestly, the only way I consider folding top set is in the super specific situation that people use to rationalize folding AA preflop, where you're on the bubble of hitting the $$ where everyone wins the same prize, i.e. entry into another tourney etc. (as someone else has already mentioned)

Savior17 · #17 (**permalink**) 05-17-2007, 03:59 PM

Does anyone else have concern over the SB's call here with KTs with a raise from TAG UTG+1?? If I am reading Brett as TAG, I have him raising with top ten, maybe a small pair or SC (not likely).
To AA and KK, SB is about a 5 to 1 dog.
To QQ and JJ, SB is about a 2.7 to 1 dog.
To TT, SB is about a 2.1 to 1 dog.
To 99 or under, SB is about a 1.2 to 1 dog.
You see where I am going....

Am I putting him on too tight of an array? Any thoughts are helpful.
Thanks

Hopin2Steal · #18 (**permalink**) 05-17-2007, 04:05 PM

With JJ, I'd raise to 250.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettButter

This is going to seem like a simple hand, but I guess I did something wrong..

PokerStars Game #9936253202: Tournament #50401432, $6.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2007/05/16 - 00:07:59 (ET)
Table '50401432 1' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Da Sha (1420 in chips)
Seat 2: eggi1911 (3240 in chips)
Seat 3: BrettButter (1680 in chips)
Seat 5: LogicTrap (1415 in chips)
Seat 6: CardMastaD. (1760 in chips)
Seat 7: Sutednbooted (1620 in chips)
Seat 8: Arndt (1305 in chips)
Seat 9: SuperDonR (1060 in chips)
SuperDonR: posts small blind 25
Da Sha: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to BrettButter [Jh Jc]
eggi1911: calls 50

Action is on me. I'm a TAG, if people are paying attention. My first instinct is to raise to 200. My second instinct is to raise to 150.

Hopin2Steal · #19 (**permalink**) 05-17-2007, 04:10 PM

So he went all-in on a semi-bluff and you called with top trips. What's not to like? Aside from the obvious, I mean. Your call was correct. It was just on of those hands. K10 suited is not horrible and he's getting 1.86:1 to call. Great flop for him. Would you have been happier if he only caught the straight?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettButter

No interest, thanks for at least humoring me Wes.

BrettButter: raises 150 to 200
LogicTrap: folds
CardMastaD.: folds
Sutednbooted: folds
Arndt: folds
SuperDonR: calls 175
Da Sha: folds
eggi1911: folds
*** FLOP *** [8d Jd 7s]
SuperDonR: bets 860 and is all-in
BrettButter: calls 860
*** TURN *** [8d Jd 7s] [9d]
*** RIVER *** [8d Jd 7s 9d] [6c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
SuperDonR: shows [Kd Td] (a flush, King high)
BrettButter: shows [Jh Jc] (three of a kind, Jacks)
SuperDonR collected 2220 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2220 | Rake 0
Board [8d Jd 7s 9d 6c]
Seat 1: Da Sha (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: eggi1911 folded before Flop
Seat 3: BrettButter showed [Jh Jc] and lost with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 5: LogicTrap folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: CardMastaD. folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Sutednbooted folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Arndt (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: SuperDonR (small blind) showed [Kd Td] and won (2220) with a flush, King high

Hopin2Steal · #20 (**permalink**) 05-17-2007, 04:24 PM

But SB is already down to 1060 and time left at 25/50 is unspecified. At 25/50, he's at 14-15 rounds. But if limits are going to jump to 50/100 soon, SB is going to need really good hands to call as bets will start going to 300 -400 and his M ratio falls to 7. Better to limp in with suited K10 and see what happens. I have no issue with the SB's play.

As has been stated, betting more than 200 may have prevented the call as call to pot ratio dropped to 1.66:1 and then 1.54:1 with bets of 250 and 300 respectively. (Not to mention he's then down to 700-800 chips if he misses the flop).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savior17

Does anyone else have concern over the SB's call here with KTs with a raise from TAG UTG+1?? If I am reading Brett as TAG, I have him raising with top ten, maybe a small pair or SC (not likely).
To AA and KK, SB is about a 5 to 1 dog.
To QQ and JJ, SB is about a 2.7 to 1 dog.
To TT, SB is about a 2.1 to 1 dog.
To 99 or under, SB is about a 1.2 to 1 dog.
You see where I am going....

Am I putting him on too tight of an array? Any thoughts are helpful.
Thanks