[jojobinks]

in any standard situation (read as: you don't have your life savings on the table, and this isn't a satellite that pays out many positions and you're near the bubble), you need to call. and you need to be very happy.

these standard situations include:

• head up against someone that can bust you (you can't be worse than 78% or so)
• you're in the bb and everyone else has already pushed ahead of you (alhtough you're "only" 35%to win, you will increase your stack by 800% when you do win.)

tangent for quick EV calculation.

65% of the time you lose and lose $100. 35% of the time you win and win $800

.65*(-100) + .35*800=
-65 + 280 = 215 EV

on average, then, you're tripling your stack my making this trivially easy call.

• first hand of your first major tournament, which is the 25k wpt championship. you're in the bb. it folds around to the small blind, where a well known pro pushes all in against you. this too is a call, homie. even if he could only have kk or aa, he's quite a bit more likely to have kk (do you see why?).
• any cash game situation whatsoever.

wait: i have a situation where you should fold. ready?
you're in the bb. it's a cash game or a tournament. whatever. you have 2 billion in chips, and the big blind is 2 units. it folds around to the sb, who pushes all in and SHOWS YOU the other two aces. it's okay to fold then.

[monkeydog]

wait: i have a situation where you should fold. ready?
you're in the bb. it's a cash game or a tournament. whatever. you have 2 billion in chips, and the big blind is 2 units. it folds around to the sb, who pushes all in and SHOWS YOU the other two aces. it's okay to fold then.[/quote]


Damn that rake!!

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by monkeydog

wait: i have a situation where you should fold. ready?
you're in the bb. it's a cash game or a tournament. whatever. you have 2 billion in chips, and the big blind is 2 units. it folds around to the sb, who pushes all in and SHOWS YOU the other two aces. it's okay to fold then.

Damn that rake!![/quote]

with no rake you still fold.

[monkeydog]

because of the flush possibilties?

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by monkeydog

because of the flush possibilties?

b/c it's an EV neutral play for a 2 billion units.

[Big Mike]

Originally Posted by jojobinks

b/c it's an EV neutral play for a 2 billion units.

But think of the bad beat story you could tell!

[OnTheButton]

Originally Posted by PhilTheThrill14

This is all pretty standard stuff that's been discussed ad nauseum on countless boards and in countless books. If you have AA preflop and someone commits you to all-in preflop - take it and take it with a smile. You are a favorite - and probably a pretty good favorite. It's these edges you play to get - when you get one - grab it.

There's 5 cards to come - that doesn't effect your odds of winning - your odds of winning include the 5 cards to come - you do know that - right? So if you have AA and your opp has KK - you are an 80-20 favorite (roughly) - the fact there are 5 cards to come is in the 80-20. You pass up the opportunity to be an 80-20 - or most likely something just as juicy, than you are not playing proper poker. Or you are just so much better than everyone else that it doesn;t matter......

Oddly, I never said that I would see an occasion to fold AA pre-flop I'm not even sure where that direction came from. I simply stated that the value of your hand and the amount bet should have a balance of sorts, and that every situation needs to be evaluated.

I've certainly folded AA after the flop, but who hasn't?

Of course you are hoping to get as much action pre-flop when holding that hand and let the odds do their thing, however there are times where no matter what you do, or how much you bet, regardless of the odds, you will loose with ANY two cards, including AA.

My point was simple: Push me into a corner with AA, and I'll fight back with it. But just because I hold those two cards, I don't think I'm bulletproof. Get me to a seemingly "safe" flop with them, and I'll feel a lot more confident in their "value" in my hand than in just holding them all alone.

My statement was about overvaluing your hands, and assuming that a pair (even top pair) might be enough to win the hand, when quite often, it is not.

[BrettButter]

OTB: Your exact statement is that you wouldn't risk your tournament on it with five cards to come. That = preflop. There is no other point in the hand where there are five cards to come.

[OnTheButton]

Originally Posted by BrettButter

OTB: Your exact statement is that you wouldn't risk your tournament on it with five cards to come. That = preflop. There is no other point in the hand where there are five cards to come.

So even though I wrote something "imperfect" to the poker gods, and then later clarified the intention of my thought, the original statement still gets impaled? What is this, the 10 commandments etched in stone tablets?

OK how's this: I'm a 8 feet tall.

So I guess even if I write in the next post that I'm only 5' 10", everyone will still think that I'm 8 feet tall?

Excuse me for posting before my coffee was finished instead of after.

[PhilTheThrill14]

It's cool OTB - it did seem like we were ganging up on you a bit.

You're 8 ft. tall? Do you shoot flames out your arse when you fart?