Ok Its Not Varience Anymore

BrettButter · #41 (**permalink**) 05-21-2007, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheButton

Even with AA, unless I'm short stacked in a tourment, I won't risk my existence at the table on one pair with 5 more cards still to play out.

So, you lay down AA pre-flop when you're not a short stack if you raise, and someone pushes and has enough to cover you?

PhilTheThrill14 · #42 (**permalink**) 05-21-2007, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettButter

So, you lay down AA pre-flop when you're not a short stack if you raise, and someone pushes and has enough to cover you?

I was gonna post the same thing. Pre-flop you hold the best hand possible. Because there are five cards to come, this somehow changes the odds of winning with AA? Against what hand is AA not the favorite with 5 cards to come? Against what hand, that is willing to get it all in pre-flop, are you not a HUGE favorite against?

Playing with this philosophy, you might as well just play any two cards - why not? - there are still 5 cards to come.......

Deuce · #43 (**permalink**) 05-21-2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettButter

So, you lay down AA pre-flop when you're not a short stack if you raise, and someone pushes and has enough to cover you?

He didn't say that... From what I gather he is trying to say that he doesn't get sooo committed pre-flop if he has alot of chips. Im not saying I agree with him but I see what he is saying.

PhilTheThrill14 · #44 (**permalink**) 05-21-2007, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deuce

He didn't say that... From what I gather he is trying to say that he doesn't get sooo committed pre-flop if he has alot of chips. Im not saying I agree with him but I see what he is saying.

Right - and we - or at least I - am saying if someone wants to get me 100% committed here than let's rock. If I get raised here and it's for a large "committment" as you put it - I am certainly not gonna fold. That is silly talk. I'm pushing - pushing real hard. There is no other answer - no matter what your stack or what your position (ok - there is the oddball position in a huge tourney, near the bubble, blah, blah, blah) - you get it all in with AA pre flop - you are a favorite - most likely a very large favorite.

OnTheButton · #45 (**permalink**) 05-21-2007, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilTheThrill14

I was gonna post the same thing. Pre-flop you hold the best hand possible. Because there are five cards to come, this somehow changes the odds of winning with AA? Against what hand is AA not the favorite with 5 cards to come? Against what hand, that is willing to get it all in pre-flop, are you not a HUGE favorite against?

Playing with this philosophy, you might as well just play any two cards - why not? - there are still 5 cards to come.......

So for you AA is an automatic all in pre-flop?

For me AA is a pair. Albiet top pair, still just a pair. Not necessarily the winning hand.

Deuce · #46 (**permalink**) 05-21-2007, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilTheThrill14

Right - and we - or at least I - am saying if someone wants to get me 100% committed here than let's rock. If I get raised here and it's for a large "committment" as you put it - I am certainly not gonna fold. That is silly talk. I'm pushing - pushing real hard. There is no other answer - no matter what your stack or what your position (ok - there is the oddball position in a huge tourney, near the bubble, blah, blah, blah) - you get it all in with AA pre flop - you are a favorite - most likely a very large favorite.

I agree but I'm not willing to bet and commit myself... Does that make sense?

BrettButter · #47 (**permalink**) 05-21-2007, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheButton

So for you AA is an automatic all in pre-flop?

For me AA is a pair. Albiet top pair, still just a pair. Not necessarily the winning hand.

However, at the time, it is the best possible hand. You are in the best possible situation.

I agree with Philly. If someone wants me to commit my chips with the best hand, let's go. I'll accept that 20% of the time I'll lose, but I like those odds better than any other starting hand I'm pushing with pre-flop.

PhilTheThrill14 · #48 (**permalink**) 05-21-2007, 03:21 PM

This is all pretty standard stuff that's been discussed ad nauseum on countless boards and in countless books. If you have AA preflop and someone commits you to all-in preflop - take it and take it with a smile. You are a favorite - and probably a pretty good favorite. It's these edges you play to get - when you get one - grab it.

There's 5 cards to come - that doesn't effect your odds of winning - your odds of winning include the 5 cards to come - you do know that - right? So if you have AA and your opp has KK - you are an 80-20 favorite (roughly) - the fact there are 5 cards to come is in the 80-20. You pass up the opportunity to be an 80-20 - or most likely something just as juicy, than you are not playing proper poker. Or you are just so much better than everyone else that it doesn;t matter......

monkeydog · #49 (**permalink**) 05-21-2007, 03:40 PM

The only reason to fold AA preflop is if you hate money. Same with KK.

monkeydog · #50 (**permalink**) 05-21-2007, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheButton

So for you AA is an automatic all in pre-flop?

For me AA is a pair. Albiet top pair, still just a pair. Not necessarily the winning hand.

It is not an automatic all in pre-flop, it is an automatic "how can I get someone else all-in preflop", there are very few situations in poker when you are 80% to win (vs. one player), I would take AA all in preflop every hand for the rest of my life and be quite happy about it!

There is NEVER a proper time to fold AA preflop.