[Poboy]

Originally Posted by AceOnRiver

i would like to add 1 thing and get some advice on a hand that is in the OP im not sure which number it is.

first i have read some people saying that i am just a bad player.i have been playing poker for 5 years and online poker for 4 of those 5.even after i have taken this $600 loss i am still up a total of $1800-$2000 as a recreational player.i play maybe 3 times per week at absolute most and thats it.i would say that im a average player maybe litle above average.but by no stretch of the imagination am a good or great player.i have just hit a rough stretch that i havent experienced yet and has me rattled.i have had many bad streaks in my 5 years of playing but nothing like this before and it had me rattled and then it turned into FBT(full blown tilt).

Playing badly and being a bad player are two different things. I think I'm an above average player, and I've played through downswings like a moron. I too thought at first it was variance, then called BS. Then took a break and looked through the hand histories. Sure, I lost plenty to donks calling raises with garbage and runner runnering me. But then I'd find hand after hand where I'm wondering what the hell I'm doing. Stupid tilt crap. Having TP of 7's and going nuts on the flop. Times when they screamed out what their hands were and I called anyway.

now for the advice on this hand.first of all i was wrong it was 4 handed i thought it was 3.it is the 4 handed game.i dont know if you guys understood me when i said this.it was 4 handed not a 4 way pot.i was at a 6-max table and only 4 people were sitting and playing(me and 3 opponents).here is the HH

POKERSTARS GAME #9918423472: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/05/14 - 23:47:16 (ET)
Table 'Thebe IV' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 2: button ($36.15 in chips)
Seat 3: SB ($15.75 in chips)
Seat 4: Villian ($52.60 in chips)
Seat 5: HERO ($59.75 in chips)
SB: posts small blind $0.25
villian: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO[Jc Js]
HERO: raises $1.50 to $2
button: folds
SB: folds
villian: calls $1.50
*** FLOP *** [6h 2h 3s]
villian: checks
HERO: bets $3.50
villian: calls $3.50
*** TURN *** [6h 2h 3s] [Tc]
villian: checks
HERO: bets $8
villian: raises $18 to $26
HERO: raises $24.50 to $50.50
villian: calls $21.10 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [6h 2h 3s Tc] [4c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
villian: shows [4s 5h] (a straight, Deuce to Six)
HERO: shows [Jc Js] (a pair of Jacks)
villian collected $103.45 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $105.45 | Rake $2

now i want to ask.how many of you fold this.if so what can you put him on.the only thing i am scared of is 22,33,66.in my opinion if i have an overpair and someone flops a set then i am going to go broke if the board isnt to scary.

What did you think he was raising you with on the turn? Committing more than half of his stack. Raising you on a draw is pretty suspect on the turn. Flop maybe, but turn... And what kind of draw - if he has a SD it'd have to be a GS. A flush draw with one card to come - I'm not putting my eggs in that basket. Is he calling the flop with a pair of 8's or 9's only to raise when an overcard hits?
This hand is exactly why people call preflop raises with suited connectors. Toss in the fact that he could also have slowplayed AA, KK, or QQ preflop, I don't see how you can figure that turn bet for a bluff often enough to make the call worthwhile.

[JM]

My gut feel, he could have called that preflop raise easily with 10 10. Huge check-raise when the 10 hits and no flush onboard to me says he hit a set. I'd have probably thought about it for a while before folding the jacks on the turn. Probably would have let my timer run out on that one.

Then again, he is BB and its only 4 handed. I'd have probably called that smallish raise to see a flop here if I were him. If I don't connect, well its not much from my stack. And I gotta defend my blinds on occassion, especially 4 handed. If you've got a big ace, and an ace hits the flop along with another piece of my straight draw, it could be worthwhile chasing.

[AceOnRiver]

ya i guess your right.my problem is that when im playing these samll stakes the players make rediculous plays that they could have 88,99,A10,K10,J10.

here is an example of a hand like that.now i will say it myself first.i made a donk call.i can beat nothing but again the whole tilt factor came into play so i call and ended up having the winner.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.comFlopTurnRiver.com (Format: Plain Text)
Button ($68.60)
Hero ($47.35)
BB (villian) ($26.20)
UTG ($35.85)
MP ($82.55)
CO ($2
Preflop: Hero is SB with As, Ac.
4 folds, Hero raises to $1.5, BB (villian) calls $1.
Flop: ($3) 6s, 3h, Jd (2 players)
Hero bets $1.5, villian calls $1.50.
Turn: ($6) Js (2 players)
Hero checks, villian bets $3.5, Hero calls $3.50.
River: ($13) Kc (2 players)
Hero checks, villian bets $19.7 (All-In), Hero calls $19.70.
Final Pot: $52.40

villian: shows [Qd 6d] (two pair, Jacks and Sixes)


this is why i make these plays.now like i said this wasnt a good call either even though i had the best hand but just look at it like an example.

so again i am overplaying my hands way to much.i need to stop and think the hand through real good before put all the money in there.

now my other problem is that it seems like whenever i have a big pair QQ-AA and i get re-raised i post the hands on different sites and they all say fold fold fold.so at what point do you have to put the money in with a big pair.isnt that what kind of hand that you want to be dealt.

any advice is helpful.thank you

[JM]

What did the villain here have?

[yeltzen]

Seriously, man, I know everyone likes to think $25NL and $50NL are the super-donk games because Ed Miller says they're beatable and that his new book will prove it, but the players in these games just aren't THAT bad. There are times that you will see people lose their mind and go to the felt with crap, but when you see raises like this, you are almost always going to look at the nuts or close to it if you call.

[Big Mike]

Originally Posted by yeltzen

Seriously, man, I know everyone likes to think $25NL and $50NL are the super-donk games because Ed Miller says they're beatable and that his new book will prove it, but the players in these games just aren't THAT bad. There are times that you will see people lose their mind and go to the felt with crap, but when you see raises like this, you are almost always going to look at the nuts or close to it if you call.

Perhaps they are donk games - you can get people to give you their whole stack with only a pair of Jacks?

[PokerFiend]

Originally Posted by AceOnRiver

1)me-KhJh flop 3h4h5h i bet we get all in he has Ah10h he wins $105

2)me-QQ flop J73i bet get called turn 10 we get all in he has KK he wins $99

3)3HANDED me-JJ get called flop 236 two hearts bet get called turn 10 we get all in he shows 45 offsuit!!!WTF he wins $105

4)me-QQ get all in preflop he has A8 and hits 3 outerhe wins $80

5)me-1010 get called by maniac flop J 2 5 bet turn 8 i bet river 2 both check he shows J7!!!WTF he wins $35

6)me 1010 flop 8 6 2 three players i bet both call turn 9 i put both asll in fir about 20 both call river A guy shows A8 he wins $70.

Most of these seem more like overcalls or overaggressive plays with the occasional bad luck, but not as much as you try to paint the picture of.

Also, it seems like you only lost between 15-20 buy-ins; that is not that much.

[mattjrocks]

Online poker is just crazy. I was playing a $10+$1 SNG on Full Tilt Sunday evening. 9 player table I am in final three, in second, with the chip leader about 1,000 in front of me and the guy in third was way behind. I was dealt AcAd. I call in first position, leader goes all in, third folds, I call all in. Showdown; my AA vs. his As2h! I'm thinking yesss! Well, I don't remember what the cards were but they proceeded to flop three spades, turn spade, river spade. Even the guy who won said now that was sick! Full Tilt....name fits.

[jojobinks]

here's an explanation of the "bad player" comments.

when you hit a bad downswing, there's only two (reasonable) possibilities.

1. you hit a bad patch of variance
2. you aren't as good as you think you are

sometimes people make up other reasons. stuff like:

1. it's rigged
2. i'm not saying it's rigged, but [yadda yadda yadda (with implication that it's rigged)]
3. they play so bad that it's impossible to beat

i don't think the comments meant that you are bad, just that it's one of two possible explanations that make sense. i will say this, though: your JJ hand above is bad. like real bad. maybe that's just the sort of hand that's a leak for you, i dunno. but you played it badly. i play .1/.25 and .25/.50, and have in 35k hands this year, so i know the games. your hand isn't good enough of the time there.

[shanghai_sparky]

Screw variance, Queens are cursed!
Dump them!