[aquaman]

Here's a small hand I won tonight. Am I starting to catch on? Was the c/r after the pf raise the right play?


PokerStars Game #9175914367: Hold'em No Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2007/03/31 - 03:09:15 (ET)
Table 'Hygiea V' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: _Veyrom_ ($9.95 in chips)
Seat 2: ridgejeff ($6.70 in chips)
Seat 3: Ace Eagle 21 ($8.10 in chips)
Seat 4: willvenus ($2.10 in chips)
Seat 6: AquamanCT ($9.25 in chips)
Seat 7: DWP13 ($6 in chips)
Seat 9: Jochen907 ($6 in chips)
AquamanCT: posts small blind $0.05
DWP13: posts big blind $0.10
Jochen907: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to AquamanCT [2c 2s]
Jochen907: checks
_Veyrom_: folds
ridgejeff: folds
Ace Eagle 21: calls $0.10
willvenus: folds
AquamanCT: raises $0.20 to $0.30
DWP13: folds
Jochen907: folds
Ace Eagle 21: calls $0.20
*** FLOP *** [7s 3c Jc]
AquamanCT: checks
Ace Eagle 21: bets $0.25
fishakguide joins the table at seat #8
AquamanCT: raises $0.25 to $0.50
Ace Eagle 21: calls $0.25
*** TURN *** [7s 3c Jc] [3d]
AquamanCT: bets $0.40
Ace Eagle 21: folds
AquamanCT collected $1.75 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1.80 | Rake $0.05
Board [7s 3c Jc 3d]
Seat 1: _Veyrom_ folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: ridgejeff folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Ace Eagle 21 folded on the Turn
Seat 4: willvenus (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: AquamanCT (small blind) collected ($1.75)
Seat 7: DWP13 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: Jochen907 folded before Flop

[PFunk]

Like a pro

You raised out of the SB, so you put out that you were strong....The check-raise on the flop was a strong play as well, you have to see where you are at and it looks like you are being tricky/trapping. He calls there, so I like leading out on the flop again to signify strength and see where you are at. If he raises or calls you are done with the hand pending a duece on the river perhaps, but he folds so all is well....Strong, solid aggressive poker imo...nice play-

[Poboy]

If you are going to raise preflop, raise more. The BB and poster were getting great odds to call your raise. I don't like the check/min raise. First, I'd lead almost all the time when HU after raising preflop. More often than not, you'd pick up the pot. Second, a check after raising is often going to get a check behind, as people will be suspicious. Third, if you are going to check raise, don't make it a min raise - make it big enough to have a chance at folding him.

[PFunk]

Originally Posted by Poboy

If you are going to raise preflop, raise more. The BB and poster were getting great odds to call your raise. I don't like the check/min raise. First, I'd lead almost all the time when HU after raising preflop. More often than not, you'd pick up the pot. Second, a check after raising is often going to get a check behind, as people will be suspicious. Third, if you are going to check raise, don't make it a min raise - make it big enough to have a chance at folding him.

My interpretation of the check on the flop is because he is strong, he wants to induce a bet out of his opponent. The minimal check-raise after raising pre-flop re-affirms this, and screams strength if were talking about a strong player. If a (good) player raises preflop, then check-raises me on the flop, I am folding unless I have a very big hand. I just think his play, for this particular holding, was nice because it looked sneaky and he represented a bigger hand then he had obviously.

The board pairing on the turn probably helped his cause though, but his opponent might not of thrown away his hand on the turn if not for the check-raise on the flop, then leading out on the turn. Had he lead out on the flop and his opponent called, and then bet out again on the turn, his opponent could of taken the pot from him with a raise there no prob.....that is just A B C poker..... Playing the hand as he did didnt leave his opponent much room to outplay him, and the deceptive play probably confused him into folding.

[Poboy]

Originally Posted by PFunk

My interpretation of the check on the flop is because he is strong, he wants to induce a bet out of his opponent.

He's not going to induce a bet very often. He got lucky, like he did with the BB+poster not calling with good odds.

The minimal check-raise after raising pre-flop re-affirms this, and screams strength if were talking about a strong player. If a (good) player raises preflop, then check-raises me on the flop, I am folding unless I have a very big hand.

You shouldn't fold if you are min check raised unless you've really got nothing. There's $1.60 in this pot when the villain needs to call the .25 min raise. He's getting ~6-1.
If I good player checks the flop after raising me preflop, the only way I'm betting out is if I have a very good hand.
But, if an opponent is dumb enough to bet out, he's probably dumb enough to call a bigger raise.

I just think his play, for this particular holding, was nice because it looked sneaky and he represented a bigger hand then he had obviously.

The board pairing on the turn probably helped his cause though, but his opponent might not of thrown away his hand on the turn if not for the check-raise on the flop, then leading out on the turn. Had he lead out on the flop and his opponent called, and then bet out again on the turn, his opponent could of taken the pot from him with a raise there no prob.....that is just A B C poker..... Playing the hand as he did didnt leave his opponent much room to outplay him, and the deceptive play probably confused him into folding.

If you're not ahead of him obviously you want him to fold. Give him a chance to fold the flop before you let him see a turn card. Very few people who put in one big blind are going to fold when another big blind goes in.

That's how I see it anyway.

[jmc]

I am baffled by the way this hand played out. The preflop raise is fine if you intended it to be a "pot sweetner". With a low pair like 22 and a rather large stack, making a smallish raise will help you bloat the pot preflop so that hopefully you win a larger pot if you flop a set and the other guy flops a little something.

So on the flop, the pot is 80c. It's a pretty dry flop except for the flush draw. It probably missed both you and your opponent. I'm not sure if I like check-raising vs. betting out. If you do checkraise, I would probably raise a little more (say, 75c~$1) because I would prefer that my opponent throw away his unpaired overcards in case he catches something on the turn. Leading the turn for 40c accomplishes nothing if your opponent actually has a J or flush draw -- but you got lucky in this case because he probably was just taking a stab at the pot with 2 unpaired high cards (the board pairing the 3 was lucky for you, since you don't expect him to have a 3 and he doesn't expect you to have a 3).

[PFunk]

I just think he mixed it up well is all for THIS particular, isolated hand....Im not saying one should play every hand this way, but it was played well for the most part and he got the best possible outcome obviously for his situation. This is one hand in 1,000's obviously, so its all pretty subjective.

I do agree that if he is going to raise in the SB out of position, he should of made it more to go pre-flop, in particular, considering there were two BB's in the hand already pre-flop, and you got one limper.

But when raising preflop....leading out on the flop, then betting the turn etc. is the obvious ABC standard play, but it would also lead himself open to his opponent taking the play away from him by simply re-raising on the turn in position. He gave himself a chance to win the pot by making some deceptive play, making his opponent outguess himself perhaps, and make unclear decisions.

I think my only criticism is the bet amounts...I would of made it a little more to play I think, but given the stakes I think it is a little deceptive when looking at the amounts...I mean, .50 cents here is a big bet.

As far as the min re-raise....If you're playing 1/2 NL and you bet out $10 on the flop after being checked to by the original pre-flop raiser who was in the SB, and he check-raises you simply making it $20 to go, he's probably got a very big hand, particularly if this guy/girl is a strong solid player, so if you didnt hit the flop big you are behind....Just because this is micro-stakes, it doesnt change the play necessarily imo.

[aquaman]

Thanks guys. PFunk's right: this was more of a mix it up type of hand. I certainly wasn't in love with my deuces. I would have folded in a heart beat. I'm not sure I would have minded if I lost a show down with it: a little investment for later in the session.

Anyway, where did you guys learn to think like this? I have a long, long, way to go.

[Poboy]

Originally Posted by aquaman

Anyway, where did you guys learn to think like this?

Getting my a** handed to me in a hand and thinking, 'better not do that again'. (It doesn't always work)
And some from books.