[kmalsom]

I'm not trying to bellitle your prediciment, because it sucks, but this is "supposedly" the reason that the ban was placed by the U.S. Government. These poker sites are all outside the U.S., so the fear is that if something happens, you have absolutely no recourse.

Also, probably because the govt makes no money on it.

Before I would get FBI Cybercrimes involved, I'd make sure that playing online isn't illegal where you are. In some states (i.e. Nevada, Colorado) it is, in others it's not. There is no federal law that says online gambling is illegal, it's state and local laws.

[jamby]

Check out this clause in the NT T&C. This would seem to cover them even if the theft of my credentials was an inside job.

12.2 It is your responsibility to keep your Account identification, secure identification, password, security questions and answers and other information specific to your Account confidential and in a safe and secure place. This includes ensuring the ongoing security of your log-in details on your personal computer device for accessing the Internet. Should another person gain access to your Account by passing all identification and security validation and verification checks, we are entitled to treat any transaction conducted by that person as valid and are not responsible under any circumstances for any loss or damage you may incur as a result.

[TheMightyJim2k]

Originally Posted by kmalsom

I'm not trying to bellitle your prediciment, because it sucks, but this is "supposedly" the reason that the ban was placed by the U.S. Government. These poker sites are all outside the U.S., so the fear is that if something happens, you have absolutely no recourse.

Also, probably because the govt makes no money on it.

Before I would get FBI Cybercrimes involved, I'd make sure that playing online isn't illegal where you are. In some states (i.e. Nevada, Colorado) it is, in others it's not. There is no federal law that says online gambling is illegal, it's state and local laws.

not going to jack this thread but this is not at all why the government is trying to stop online poker. If anything this is one of the strongest arguments for the government should legalize and regulate online poker at home so our money isn't going abroad. I would pay a premium over Neteller and other companies to have the US legal system backing me with stuff like this goes down.

and jamby I'm just now checking out those threads but that is some scary stuff. looks like NT has security issues. I am seriously considering shutting down my NT account until this blows over.

keep after them and if you are going through a Visa Debit card you might consider trying to bring their support in.

gl

[jamby]

Thanks Jim. No, my funding accuont with them was my Chase checking account and then they also took funds from my PokerStars account too. I wish that I'd been using Credit Cards, but never wanted to pay those fees. As for debit cards - I've managed to avoid them.

Originally Posted by TheMightyJim2k

...keep after them and if you are going through a Visa Debit card you might consider trying to bring their support in.

[jamby]

Aside from all the computer related scans and such I've taken a number of account related measures to hopefully protect my funds from further compromise.

My Neteller account was the first one to be closed.

My P* account has been frozen and the password changed.

My Chase user ID and password have been changed.

All my gmail email account passwords have been changed. I have several accounts for different purposes.

I've closed my MyCitadel funding account.

I've requested that my Click2Pay account be closed.

I've requested that my EWalletExpress (Navaho Networks) account be closed.

I've requested a record of any recent activity - suspicious or otherwise - and account closure from these online sites:
PokerRoom.com
Doyle's Room
Titan Poker
Party Poker
Empire Poker
Full Tilt Poker (never played anything other than cash games here, but wanted to cover all bases).

I've removed my checking account from my personal paypal account.

I've removed my checking account from my premier paypal account and then found that I had already exceeded the lifetime spending limits so just closed that account.

I still have to wait for what is now a pending debit of $816.57 showing on my checking account to post in order to file the paperwork to contest the charge as fraudulent.

Neteller still has not contacted me even a single time in regard to this. All other parties involved are being responsive at the very least.

-jamby

[Wedge Rock]

Originally Posted by kmalsom

I'm not trying to bellitle your prediciment, because it sucks, but this is "supposedly" the reason that the ban was placed by the U.S. Government. These poker sites are all outside the U.S., so the fear is that if something happens, you have absolutely no recourse.

Disagree.

The companies are outside the US because of the ban, the ban is not because they are outside the US.

Legalize it, regulate it, tax it. This wouldn't happen as often, and you'd have more recourse if it did.

Originally Posted by kmalsom

Before I would get FBI Cybercrimes involved, I'd make sure that playing online isn't illegal where you are. In some states (i.e. Nevada, Colorado) it is, in others it's not. There is no federal law that says online gambling is illegal, it's state and local laws.

Don't worry, Andi, I'll ask off the record what you should do... We'll talk about it int he lockerroom, not in his office at the Bureau...

[jamby]

Thanks. It's this clause that has me really concerned in their T&C. Seems like a pretty rock-solid statement. How do I prove otherwise?


12.2 It is your responsibility to keep your Account identification, secure identification, password, security questions and answers and other information specific to your Account confidential and in a safe and secure place. This includes ensuring the ongoing security of your log-in details on your personal computer device for accessing the Internet. Should another person gain access to your Account by passing all identification and security validation and verification checks, we are entitled to treat any transaction conducted by that person as valid and are not responsible under any circumstances for any loss or damage you may incur as a result.

Originally Posted by Wedge Rock

Don't worry, Andi, I'll ask off the record what you should do... We'll talk about it int he lockerroom, not in his office at the Bureau...

[Nexttime]

Originally Posted by jamby

Thanks. It's this clause that has me really concerned in their T&C. Seems like a pretty rock-solid statement. How do I prove otherwise?
12.2 It is your responsibility to keep your Account identification, secure identification, password, security questions and answers and other information specific to your Account confidential and in a safe and secure place. This includes ensuring the ongoing security of your log-in details on your personal computer device for accessing the Internet. Should another person gain access to your Account by passing all identification and security validation and verification checks, we are entitled to treat any transaction conducted by that person as valid and are not responsible under any circumstances for any loss or damage you may incur as a result.

One of their security checks is watching for unsual transactions coming from IP addresses that you have never used in the past. I know one account that got flagged because my buddy would play on the road but always funded the account when he was home. One week after a run of bad luck he funded his account via neteller when he was travelling out of the country and they called him to verify the transaction.

They also look at other things most likely to include, abnormal changes in amount transfered, dates and times the transfers happen, etc. If someone complained that their little brother got access to the same computer, did a transaction that appears to be fairly normal (same poker site, regular and or low amount) they would probably have very little sympathy for you and cite this paragraph. From what I read earlier in this thread there are some unsual things here that would have probably set off alarms at neteller if the transactions continued (of course, giving neteller the benifit of the doubt).

I guess I can only offer moral support though. I hope it works out ok.

[jamby]

Thanks for the good information and the moral support.

It seems to me that the IP address should have been a red flag too. I don't know what to think other than to be comfortable in knowing that I didn't do anything at all flagrant.

I had the same password and email address connected to two different accounts. That's about it. Other than that, I don't know what they could blame on me. My computers are clean, it's obvious the money didn't go to me since US citizens can't even open accounts at those places, etc. I just don't know how this will play out and the wait is very painful.

-jamby

Originally Posted by Nexttime

One of their security checks is watching for unsual transactions coming from IP addresses that you have never used in the past. I know one account that got flagged because my buddy would play on the road but always funded the account when he was home. One week after a run of bad luck he funded his account via neteller when he was travelling out of the country and they called him to verify the transaction.

They also look at other things most likely to include, abnormal changes in amount transfered, dates and times the transfers happen, etc. If someone complained that their little brother got access to the same computer, did a transaction that appears to be fairly normal (same poker site, regular and or low amount) they would probably have very little sympathy for you and cite this paragraph. From what I read earlier in this thread there are some unsual things here that would have probably set off alarms at neteller if the transactions continued (of course, giving neteller the benifit of the doubt).

I guess I can only offer moral support though. I hope it works out ok.

[jamby]

I received emails overnight from Empire Poker, Party Poker and Doyle's Room. All report that no logons or other suspicious activity have occurred. So far it appears that this crime (yes, I'm now going to refer to it as a crime, screw calling it a compromise) impacted my P* and Neteller accounts only.

The really disappointing thing for me is that NT still hasn't even had the courtesy to contact me and let me know they're working on it.

If anybody has ideas for dealing with Neteller, please share them.

-jamby