[ky70]

Originally Posted by w16227

..."M" has little meaning when headsup - you are better off with putting a good read on the playing style and exploiting that. chris Fergeson had a great cardplayer article on odds and HU play that is a better overall strategy (kind of lime the "M" for HU play). You would be surprised at what truly is "good" statistical strategy when hu (like callin allin with K4os kind of stuff)...

I'll disagree that your chip stack in relation to the blinds and antes has little meaning heads up...it's one of the most important factors.

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by ky70

Because even if he has nada, you're likely still beat. I just don't like banking on draws heads up. Do you feel like he could outplay you heads up? If not, I don't see the need to "lose money" here. Your draw did hit, but it was more likely not to hit and in poker (like no other game) the end result does not always justify the decision.

at the time i'm almost surely beat. this is why i don't raise (as w16227 recommends). but i'm surely also not gonna fold, b/c 33% of the time i'm likely to bust him, and the other 2/3 of the time i'll have enough chips left to still win 50% of the time.

if there's any time to be creative, it's headup. waiting to flop top pair is a sure way to put yourself in a bad spot, imo.

[osumike11379]

If he was trying to buy the pot on the river...yes that is one of the most hideous calls I have ever seen...

[D3scride]

He clearly had fold equity by check raising for 55 more. Either that or he was trapping you with his 8 high.

[JM]

Originally Posted by jojobinks

if there's any time to be creative, it's headup. waiting to flop top pair is a sure way to put yourself in a bad spot, imo.

Second that. The likelyhood that he would also have 2 diamonds is pretty low here. You gotta change it up and be creative when you get to HU or you'll piss away your chips waiting for a hand.

[ky70]

Originally Posted by JM

Second that. The likelyhood that he would also have 2 diamonds is pretty low here. You gotta change it up and be creative when you get to HU or you'll piss away your chips waiting for a hand.

I guess what I'm saying is I wouldn't mind being heads up with an oppnent willing to pay to draw to a hand.

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by ky70

I guess what I'm saying is I wouldn't mind being heads up with an oppnent willing to pay to draw to a hand.

got money on p*? lemme know when you're ready, baby.

all mistakes aren't created equally in poker, right? this is a situation in which i make a "mistake" of calling without the proper expressed odds in order to have him make a much bigger mistake later. that's all it's about.

[ky70]

Originally Posted by jojobinks

got money on p*? lemme know when you're ready, baby.

all mistakes aren't created equally in poker, right? this is a situation in which i make a "mistake" of calling without the proper expressed odds in order to have him make a much bigger mistake later. that's all it's about.

I hear you my friend...and I would love to thrash you on poker stars but I have long since retired from my online playing days.

[w16227]

Originally Posted by ky70

I'll disagree that your chip stack in relation to the blinds and antes has little meaning heads up...it's one of the most important factors.

Well - remember, I said "M". Stack sizes are a factor in your decision making, but "M" as a reference number loses a lot when HU - especially online SnGs where you will rarely have large stacks headsup. Oh - and I am referring to tournemnet HU (final two), not a HU tourney or general SH cash play.

In this case, both players had critical "M"s, and (in theory) would be justified in pushing from the SB every hand.

Before the deal - Jojo's "M" is 8.7. ADJUSTING FOR THE SHORTHANDED TABLE - he is 1.74. Most people forget that this number shrinks when shorthanded.

Well into the red and push time, no?

Your chip stack relative to the other player, combined with their playing style (and you read of their patterns) is far more important.

Stack sizes vs blinds/antes in headsup are really only useful in simplifiying the decisions you need to make. Sometimes it can help, but for the most part (especially online SnG's), your "M" is already so low that it is not a relevant number.

[ky70]

Originally Posted by w16227

In this case, both players had critical "M"s, and (in theory) would be justified in pushing from the SB every hand...

My post that you quoted is nothing more than M defined and that is still important (IMO). I'm not commenting on the application of M as suggested in HOH (as you just mention M in genreal in your original post) so I'm disagreeing with your statement saying ""M" has little meaning when headsup".

Originally Posted by w16227

Your chip stack relative to the other player, combined with their playing style (and you read of their patterns) is far more important.

I don't think your stack size vs. opponent's stack size tells enough of the story. If the blinds are still at level 3 (because you had some serious confrontations early eliminating the rest of the table) and you're heads up early, how useful/relevent is it to just look at stack sizes when the blinds are only a small % of both player's stacks? On the other end, if you didn't get heads up until the later levels of the tourney, how useful/relevent is it to just look at stack sizes when the blinds are big % of both players stacks?

Along with stack sizes, blinds and antes should be included in the equation...IMO your M v. opponent's M is still an important measure.