English at the table

plagueboy · #21 (**permalink**) 10-02-2006, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hachkc

... Do you expect everyone in France to speak English when you go there and play cards at the Aviation Club? ...

No. However, I would expect everyone to speak a "decided upon" language. If I wasn't confortable with that language, or if they didn't have a decided upon language, then I probably wouldn't play there.

PhilTheThrill14 · #22 (**permalink**) 10-02-2006, 03:13 PM

But these reasons you guys are stating are not reasons it should be allowed.

Because it's difficult to enforce with all sorts of nationalities playing we should let it happen? No. Players need to be 100% certain that collusion can't be taking place - so one language must be picked. Am I supposed to lose a tourney where everyone is speaking german and just assume that the on-line casino is going to monitor the chat? Is the casino going to want to spend all the extra money to do that - either hire people who can read german or buy software to translate it and have someone go through all the chat records?

The answer is no. It can't work that way. Of course it's not the same as live - the implications are slightly different and there are many more circumstances that can occur at a live casino. But that STILL doesn't make it ok. I have yet to see a valid argument for why it should be ok for people to speak different languages at a poker table. It's wrong for a reason.

Monster · #23 (**permalink**) 10-02-2006, 03:26 PM

Quick solution, LEAVE THE TABLE.

hachkc · #24 (**permalink**) 10-02-2006, 03:29 PM

While I may not agree with the rule I think the rule should be enforced that English is the only allowable language for the chat area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilTheThrill14

Because it's difficult to enforce with all sorts of nationalities playing we should let it happen? No. Players need to be 100% certain that collusion can't be taking place - so one language must be picked. Am I supposed to lose a tourney where everyone is speaking german and just assume that the on-line casino is going to monitor the chat? Is the casino going to want to spend all the extra money to do that - either hire people who can read german or buy software to translate it and have someone go through all the chat records?

If you are concerned about this then you shouldn't play online because the only people stupid enough to cheat via the chat area are probably cheating and still losing money. Any IM package is way more sophisticated than the poker site chat area and way more secure. As for active monitoring of the chat area, I don't believe it happens but if you complain the logs can be reviewed and translated if necessary to confirm any collusion. Also, you can never be 100% certain the players are not in collusion either live or online. Collusion online is fairly easy to do (have IM or a phone) and difficult to identify quickly if done properly. Also, it can be done actively (players working together to manipulate pots) or passively (just sharing hand information).

My take is if you are worried about cheaters using the chat area, then you probably shouldn't play online because there are a ton of different ways to do this easier and safer than the chat area.

PhilTheThrill14 · #25 (**permalink**) 10-02-2006, 03:31 PM

Of course that's always an option. I can see it now - on-line casinos telling their customers that they will allow any language to be spoken at the tables - and if you don't like it - just leave. If it's a tournament we'll refund your money. Oh wait - this can't work.....

You guys aren't being sensible. It's not easy and it's not perfect, and it won't get rid of collusion\cheating. But there is a reason they ask for English only at the tables.

hachkc · #26 (**permalink**) 10-02-2006, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilTheThrill14

Of course that's always an option. I can see it now - on-line casinos telling their customers that they will allow any language to be spoken at the tables - and if you don't like it - just leave. If it's a tournament we'll refund your money. Oh wait - this can't work.....

You guys aren't being sensible. It's not easy and it's not perfect, and it won't get rid of collusion\cheating. But there is a reason they ask for English only at the tables.

Agreed.

PhilTheThrill14 · #27 (**permalink**) 10-02-2006, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hachkc

While I may not agree with the rule I think the rule should be enforced that English is the only allowable language for the chat area.

If you are concerned about this then you shouldn't play online because the only people stupid enough to cheat via the chat area are probably cheating and still losing money. Any IM package is way more sophisticated than the poker site chat area and way more secure. As for active monitoring of the chat area, I don't believe it happens but if you complain the logs can be reviewed and translated if necessary to confirm any collusion. Also, you can never be 100% certain the players are not in collusion either live or online. Collusion online is fairly easy to do (have IM or a phone) and difficult to identify quickly if done properly. Also, it can be done actively (players working together to manipulate pots) or passively (just sharing hand information).

My take is if you are worried about cheaters using the chat area, then you probably shouldn't play online because there are a ton of different ways to do this easier and safer than the chat area.

Everyone keeps using the same flawed argument. Just because there are better ways for them to cheat, doesn't mean it should be allowed (non-english chat).

I've never stated I am overly concerned with this or that I am afraid to play because someone might use the chat box for cheating (even though people do). I know about all the other ways people can collude and certainly the chat box is the least of my worries. Still, not a valid reason to allow the "any-language" chat text.

Strange · #28 (**permalink**) 10-02-2006, 03:54 PM

'English only at the table'

I've said exactly that in the chat box when I've had a bunch of swedes or germans chatting. Its happened several times, and I've always received agreement and something approaching an apology.

dad604 · #29 (**permalink**) 10-02-2006, 04:50 PM

Paradise Poker has a English only policy. It tells you that in the chat box everytime you sit at a table.

I read an article by Everlyn Ng where she was a table with a Jewish couple and they were colluding in Hebrew. She understood what they were saying as she grew up in a community with many Jews. She was going to say something about it to the dealer but then decide to use the info herself instead. When she left the table, she said "Good bye and thank you for the donation in Hebrew to the couple.

I also know of a local game where players were telling each other what they held in another language.

Sniper2075 · #30 (**permalink**) 10-02-2006, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dad604

I also know of a local game where players were telling each other what they held in another language.

I was playing last week at a local casino, a couple of the other players were speaking spanish together. This went on for a little and then I made a comment about English only at the table. One of the guys got really pissy and wouldn't stop, he said he could speak in Spanish if he wasn't in a hand, I said no, if your sitting at the table its English only, the floor came over and basically said that also. He finally got pissed and left. I mean how is it fair for 2 or more players to be speaking in another language, I don't speak Spanish and had no clue what they were saying, were they colluding together, probably not but if they were discussing hands that would be unfair to the rest of the table. I could care less but he made way to big a deal about it was basically speaking spanish after being told to stop just to be a jerk. I was happy when he left but he was losing so I didn't really want to see him leave but it was late and I was leaving anyway so I didn't really care.