[smoore]

Originally Posted by hachkc

On a somewhat related note:

Depending on the site, it is possible to data mine (collect hands and statistics) tables that you are not playing on. This allows you to collect information on folks you've never actually played with. This was a big issue on PP awhile back but they've removed the ability to do this. Its still available on some sites (UB, P*?) but it takes a little bit more setup and isn't as easy or useful as it was on PP.

You can still mine party. You need FPHG.exe (Free party hand grabber). iWitness is a good AHK script that maintains certain conditions for datamining. There's a new program out in beta that does party mining as a screensaver (10 min idle and it starts mining). Basically, they took away the ability to import observed hands directly into PT but FPHG works fine and they don't seem to mind it's use.

re: those other tables: yeah, this is the end of the tourney so I'm watching the other two tables. I like to do this to notice the movers and the shakers, as well as note who is a lucky donk.

edit: that new screensaver-miner is announced in the 2+2 software forum, btw.

[yeltzen]

I think data-mining is pretty lame. You can't do it in a real tournament, so you shouldn't be able to do it online. If you want to sit and watch 10 tables, then fine. But you shouldn't be able to see mucked hands and stuff when you aren't at the table.

[Nanook]

Originally Posted by yeltzen

you shouldn't be able to see mucked hands and stuff when you aren't at the table.

I totally agree, but if others are doing it I want to be able to do it too. I just want to make sure that I am playing by the same rules as others, ie I do not want to be at a competitive disadvantage.

AB

[smoore]

Originally Posted by yeltzen

I think data-mining is pretty lame. You can't do it in a real tournament, so you shouldn't be able to do it online. If you want to sit and watch 10 tables, then fine. But you shouldn't be able to see mucked hands and stuff when you aren't at the table.

Party does indeed show the mucked hands to everyone, 'stars does not.

I'd love the ability to see everyone's stats through the tourney but like I say, it's against 'stars TOS so I don't do it.

Datamining is part of modern online poker, like it or not. Personally, I don't do it right now because I've given up party (stupid monster). As I learn omaha I may go back and if I do, I'll be mining.

[hachkc]

Thanks for updates smoore, I haven't followed that stuff much lately.

Originally Posted by yeltzen

I think data-mining is pretty lame. You can't do it in a real tournament, so you shouldn't be able to do it online. If you want to sit and watch 10 tables, then fine. But you shouldn't be able to see mucked hands and stuff when you aren't at the table.

It would make a good philosphical argument. Its just technology pushing the boundaries of what we think is normal/right/just. Some folks would probably argue that you shouldn't be able to see mucked hands even if you are at the table and in the hand. Also, its pretty difficult, if even allowed, to play multiple tables live.

[yeltzen]

Originally Posted by Nanook

I totally agree, but if others are doing it I want to be able to do it too. I just want to make sure that I am playing by the same rules as others, ie I do not want to be at a competitive disadvantage.

AB

Oh yeah, if the site ALLOWS you to do it, then you should. But I don't think the sites should allow it.

[Fins]

Originally Posted by smoore

I just changed that filter to 30 hands in my PAHud, as lower than 30 is really not enough to formulate an opinion. At 30 hands you have just a hint of an idea of how they play.

I was wondering if you can set it up to have a rolling avg of sorts e.g. data is over the last 50 hands with a min? Just thought it might be a good option to have to watch for switching gears etc... Now that I think about it I guess there are too many variables to make it worthwhile but still curious if it's possible.

[hachkc]

Originally Posted by Fins

I was wondering if you can set it up to have a rolling avg of sorts e.g. data is over the last 50 hands with a min? Just thought it might be a good option to have to watch for switching gears etc... Now that I think about it I guess there are too many variables to make it worthwhile but still curious if it's possible.

PA lets you use the last X hands to determine the averages. The question I think you are asking is how does his play in the last X hands vary against his average play using all of his hands; I'm pretty sure you can't do this with PA.

I have mine set to like 5k or so as I have a few of PLO8 players with more hands than this. Optionally, you can just use the current limit as a filter if you've played against the same person at multiple limits.

[smoore]

Indeed, you cannot compare "last 50" to "whole database". Would be nice though.

[dad604]

Originally Posted by hachkc

On a somewhat related note:

Depending on the site, it is possible to data mine (collect hands and statistics) tables that you are not playing on. This allows you to collect information on folks you've never actually played with. This was a big issue on PP awhile back but they've removed the ability to do this. Its still available on some sites (UB, P*?) but it takes a little bit more setup and isn't as easy or useful as it was on PP.

Actually, it is not PT that disallows data mining but the sites themselves. Certain sites still allow data mining, UB, Pacific, etc. Certain sites have it in their T&C that you cannot data mine, P*, Party, etc. It is still possible to data mine P* and Party but P* is very strict about it and your account can be frozen. So far, players seem to be getting away with data mining at Party even tho it is against their T&C.