[Nanook]

Originally Posted by smoore

PT won't auto-rate tournament players. If you wanted to you could go through and define your own ratings for each player in PT. Better to just learn how the numbers correlate, IMO.

So are you saying when you play in MTT's like the $2 + .20 that you recently posted a win you just Fire up PT and PA HUD and just look at some of the PT stats on whoever happens to be at your table. What stats do you look at? would you mind sharing a screen shot of what that looks like? How do you use that info gathered to alter your play?

AB

[smoore]

Heh, you just opened a whole can of worms.

Here's my layout:
(Starts at 12 o'clock on the avatar)
VP$IP
PFR (first two are self explanatory as to why I want them)
call PFR raise/cold call PFR (does he raise or call? does he limp/call or cold call?)
attempt to steal blinds
fold SB to steal/fold BB to steal (again, obvious purpose)
Total hands (6 o'clock)
continuation bet
continuation bet turn (these two are to see if he bets out a lot with air. don't really see it effectively until 1k hands, IMO. I don't have 1k hands on ANYONE but if they never cont bet or always cont bet it helps.)
raise total
check/raise total (how aggressively do they raise or check raise?)


Under each player name I use a by street combo stat for:
Aggression factor
Aggression frequency

Aggresion factor is the old PT stat. Aggression frequency is the PAHUD stat. Normally they will coincide, true "I don't know what I'm doing!" donkeys won't.

I'd suggest: VP$IP, PFR, attempt to steal, fold blinds to steal and cont bet along with a by street aggression factor combo box to start out with. The others won't bring you insight until you learn what the numbers I've just suggested mean for different opponents.

edit: I'll grab a screenshot tomorrow when I play

[TheMightyJim2k]

I started a thread a few weeks ago where I was told that PT is very useful and could really improve my game so I have really enjoyed following this thread.

I am slowly working my way up online limit holdem and I think that PT will be a step up from the current opponent note taking and bankroll databasing that I employ.

Keep up the good discussion and if I pick up a copy and get going with it I'll try to chime in.

[Nanook]

Originally Posted by smoore

Heh, you just opened a whole can of worms.

edit: I'll grab a screenshot tomorrow when I play

Still interested in seeing your screenshot and then opening up this can of worms.

AB

[smoore]

I forgot to grab one last night but luckily remembered that I used this one in another thread:

1200 by the other:


leaderse01 seems to be a standard TAG. Low VP$IP, all of it raising. Little calling a raise PF, no cold calling a raise PF. He has put in a steal raise 30% of the time he had a chance (we can't know if he actually had hands all the time here but it's doubtful if he's a good player). We do know that he has folded his blinds to a steal EVERY TIME. This guy is definitely a stealing target for me. He has made a cont bet 100%, and we have an "x" for turn cont bet. That means he hasn't gotten to that position... either his opponents folded to his flop cont bet or one of them was all in. He is aggressive on the flop (I can't see the aggression factor behind his 100% blind folding but this has been tweaked in my current layout). His aggression factor is red and his aggression frequency is 50%. That's good for him, bad for us. His aggression factor on the turn is infinite (oo) but his frequency is 33. This is probably due to the infintesmal sample size BUT it can indicate that he is willing to float the flop with air or a draw and then give up on the turn. He's only checked through on the river (0.0 with an x for frequency). Summed up, I don't want to mix it up with this guy. I want to start with quality cards and continue if I think I'm ahead.

Aggression factor takes into account checks, aggression frequency does not. I'm still learning the relationship between the two of them.

Now, look at el bebi 06. We only have 36 hands on him but he's definitely been a maniac at this late stage over those 36 hands. 56 VP$IP, 36 PFR! That's maniac territory. He has called a PFR THREE times in those 36 hands (8% call PFR out of 36 hands is 2.8 something). This guy is mixing it UP! But wait.... look at the postflop aggression. He's fairly damn passive. That either means he's floating along with inferior hands or he's trapping. Using this hand as an example, I'd say he's tricky/trappy. He is probably mixing it up preflop in order to hit monsters postflop and break stacks smaller than his. He's using frustration as a weapon. I want to build a big hand and snap off his bluffs.

The other players are just normal late-stage tournament players. taz17 is playing a normal SLAA strategy, where he enters with decent stuff and pushes hard postflop. Chaser 201 seems to be nursing his short stack along, just trying to move up in the money. I'm not ready to form an opinion on the guy with just 13 hands. Thinking about it, I should probably turn the filter on PAHud to 30 hands minimum.

Once you understand what all the numbers mean you can start to formulate strategies to use against each player. Punish that weak-tight guy, mix it up with the maniac and avoid the TAG unless you have the goods.

[Nanook]

Thanks Smoore,

I will have to do some studying of what you have said and see if I can formulate some intelligent questions.

The only question that comes to mind right now before doing some studying is that I notice that some of the players do not have any stats by them. Why is this? When in a large tourney like this there are many tables. How many/which ones can you collect data on? How does all this work?

AB

[yeltzen]

Originally Posted by Nanook

Thanks Smoore,

I will have to do some studying of what you have said and see if I can formulate some intelligent questions.

The only question that comes to mind right now before doing some studying is that I notice that some of the players do not have any stats by them. Why is this? When in a large tourney like this there are many tables. How many/which ones can you collect data on? How does all this work?

AB

I think he's just watching those two tables, not playing at them. Most HUDs only display stats for a table you're playing at.

[Nanook]

That is what I thought too.

I was just wondering if you could gather info on other players that were in your tourney, but not at your table. For obvious reasons this would be helpful in a large tourney.

AB

Originally Posted by yeltzen

I think he's just watching those two tables, not playing at them. Most HUDs only display stats for a table you're playing at.

[hachkc]

Originally Posted by yeltzen

I think he's just watching those two tables, not playing at them. Most HUDs only display stats for a table you're playing at.

On a somewhat related note:

Depending on the site, it is possible to data mine (collect hands and statistics) tables that you are not playing on. This allows you to collect information on folks you've never actually played with. This was a big issue on PP awhile back but they've removed the ability to do this. Its still available on some sites (UB, P*?) but it takes a little bit more setup and isn't as easy or useful as it was on PP.

[smoore]

I probably just got moved to this table a little while ago (36 hands?) and the one guy that I have over 100, I probably played with him earlier in the tourney. Anyone without stats at all means I have fewer than 10 hands on them. I just changed that filter to 30 hands in my PAHud, as lower than 30 is really not enough to formulate an opinion. At 30 hands you have just a hint of an idea of how they play.

It would be pretty trivial to "data mine" (not the correct term but that's what poker players call it), or collect hands on other tables but it's against 'stars TOS. I'm not willing to get thrown out of my favorite pond to gain an edge. Basically you are only entitled to information about hands you are in at pokerstars. Other sites have other policies.