[Mok]

I guess I didn't know how to word the title.

I'm /fairly/ knew to the online poker thing, a few months into it I'd say (maybe 4 or 5 tops). I try to stick with NL Hold-'Em.

I've done some standard tables, which, I don't have huge reserves of play-money chips, but I've got quite a few. At the play-money tables, there is always some guy who is "going to bed" or something, and starts going all-in just to bust out..... Or, a table-bully. Then, there are the gorilla guys, who come in, go all-in a few times to steal chips away from those foolish enough to call, and then leave the table for the next one.

What I have found though is that I tend to do much better in tournament play, both Sit-n-Go or full fledged tournies. I've been playing mostly sit-n-go games (because they're easier to get into, and fit my schedule better) both the 320, and the 2110 games. I always try to get in on the 45 person games, more of a challenge, and I can usually expect to spend about an hour and a half in them.

I am doing pretty well for these play-money games. I make it to the final table a lot (don't know the percentages, haven't done them (why doesn't P*s have those types of stats, not just hands???)) and typically finish in the top 4 or so, with quite a few 1st and 2nd place finishes to date.

I /do/ have $25 in my real-money side of PokerStars, from playing in the $10 Wil Wheaton charity event thingy back in September, and managed to get 49th out of over 2,200 players.... Anyway, I have this extra $25 in my account. The big free-rolls on PokerStars fill up so fast, I've managed to get in on a couple, placed 54 in a limit one, but that was as good as it got for the couple I've played in, against what 4-6000 people?

My question is this. If I were to start playing some $1 + .20 tournies, can I expect the same kind of play I'm seeing now in the play-money arena? In doing reading online, it seems like I probably will. Lots of morons going all-in in the first few hands hoping to double-up. Everyone here knows how it goes.

I will say that I know there are some gaping holes in my game. I play hands I shouldn't, and probably get out of pots I should stay in. I just don't do the odds well yet in my head, but I'm getting there. Come Christmas, I'm hoping some of the good books are on my "thank you" letters to family afterwards. I am certain I'm getting close to the point of not doing much better without reading some real strategy.

But, my question remains. I really don't care to just blow that extra $25 bucks, but if I think I may have a chance to at least break even with it, I may just go for it. Yes, I know that you should never gamble more than you care to lose, so yes, I /could/ lose this $25 and not feel hurt. I just would like to think my game is good enough, for these super-low buy-in games. If the players in those low-buy-in games are the same ones who frequent the play-money games, I'm wondering if I stand a chance at all.

My initial goal when starting to play online was that I wasn't going to bet any real money until I felt I was a solid enough player, and / or the first of the year. That way I could really get a feel for how everything worked.

Long winded as usual. Comments? Insights? Flames? Suggestions?

[Fins]

My feeling is IT'S $25's... for entertainment value alone you should play real money games as the play money games as you've found can be ridiculous at times. I think you'll find the real money games are much better but you do have the share of crazies but not quite to the extent as in the play money games. With $25's you can play 20 $1.20's which should be a good enough BR to start. I'd restrain yourself from playing the 5.50's as you can only play 4 and even on top of your game you're going to loose four in a row alot.

My vote's play the $1.20's for awhile and see what you can do with the $25's. I'd do the single tables with your BR.

[w16227]

Originally Posted by Mok

My question is this. If I were to start playing some $1 + .20 tournies, can I expect the same kind of play I'm seeing now in the play-money arena? In doing reading online, it seems like I probably will. Lots of morons going all-in in the first few hands hoping to double-up. Everyone here knows how it goes.

My initial goal when starting to play online was that I wasn't going to bet any real money until I felt I was a solid enough player, and / or the first of the year. That way I could really get a feel for how everything worked.

Long winded as usual. Comments? Insights? Flames? Suggestions?

The $1 tournaments will have slightly better play than the play money ones. You should not have any real troubles with the game if you make sure to avoid the common play money strategy of overaggressiveness (hey, I have 2 face cards, ALL IN).

The cheapie games will get you started with live money. The $25 seems to be "found money" - so it can be put to good use during your poker "training". Even though ther will be people playing in a similar manner as play money, the low limit games will be about 10x more helpful to your game.

If you do real well out of the gate - do not fall into the trap of trying to move up too quick. Play at the lower level untl you have at least 20x the SnG buyin in your bankroll. Then, play a few at the new level to see if you are comfortable.

[Mok]

Thanks guys for the info.

I still may stick to my guns and not play for "real money" until the first of the year. At some times in your life you just have to be true to yourself, I said I wasn't going to, now I think I should stick it out for the next month. A LONG month, with Christmas and my birthday (also ON Christmas, TYVM) it may be a really long month indeed.

As with the play at these low SnG games, still tons of "limpers" on every hand, like with the play-money ones? I am astounded by the number of limpers who just bet the BB on almost every hand, regardless of what they have. Is this a phenomenon with just play money, or SnG games in general?

My initial feeling is that I'm prepared to "spend" (aka lose) some money after the $25 is used up (if it is, and I'm kidding myself). I'll just call it all as part of my monthly entertainment expenses. Would be nice to think I could make enough to break even on my investments, but really, that is unrealistic at my level of play, I'm not trying to kid myself or anyone else.

I do know one thing, I'll stop playing DDO (I managed to get in on the beta) at the same time I have a table open when I start playing the real-money games, that is for sure!

Also, thanks for the reminder about going higher sooner. I know that, I know that I could be tempted to do such a thing, and that is part of the reason I put the "2006 start date" in my brain, so I can prove to myself I have the self-control to actually adhere to it. If I buckle and head to the tables now with my $25, I think a subconscious level would say that I could go up in game level, when I shouldn't.

Again, thanks for the insight. Really, if the play is just marginally better in the super low games, than the play-money ones, I can't say I'll do too horribly. It could be a great use of my money, since I do enjoy playing so much.

Needless to say, I've got some new books on my Christmas list this year!

Oh, and in my humble opinion, Pstars is the best client out there, just the feel and look really appeals to me. I think that really counts as something.

I have some money at Bodog too, from a FreeRoll I placed 3rd in, but don't care for the interface nearly as much, any insight into any of the low $ (non-ring) games at Bodog? This really is found money, won money. I actually cashed out some of these winnings, because I wanted to get the wife something for being so understanding of my new vice.

[Fins]

I can appreciate making a commitment & sticking to it. I just feel that other than learning the interface & familiarizing yourself with online play, the playmoney games are of little value.

[minttea]

I was in your situation about six months ago, playing with the free $10 that Royal Vegas gives out and trying not to bust - I played for a few months with that $10 and did OK, and it's amazing for me to look at my stats from back then now...I can easily lose $10 in a hand now and think nothing of it.

Anyway, whether you stick with play money or play $1.20s, it seems like you're thinking about poker, so you'll probably be way ahead of the competition. Move up to the little games whenever you feel ready, I'm sure you're ready to beat them now. On Bodog, the $1 multitable tournaments often have HUGE overlays. I think they have $1+0, $1000 Guaranteed tourneys that like 400 people play in (they did the last time I played there) - that's an awfully good value, and I'd recommend trying those as soon as you feel comfortable with it. Maybe you won't cash in the few chances you'll have, but negative rake is always nice.

edit: btw, the play in the tiny money SnGs is fairly different from the play money ones. It's not very good, but it's not the same. Less early all-ins with crap, but equally bad poker playing, in my experience.

[cpiaaq]

I'd practice in the .01/.02 no limit tables, not the play money ones. Still very low risk but the play is better. As you get better, move to the .02/.04 NL and then to the .05/.10 NL etc. At the .10/.25 NL level people have $5-$10 at the table.

[Mok]

Originally Posted by Fins

I can appreciate making a commitment & sticking to it. I just feel that other than learning the interface & familiarizing yourself with online play, the playmoney games are of little value.

Yeah, I was just telling a co-worker a week or so ago that I wonder if I'm doing more damage to my game by playing these without reading some books, or otherwise learning (besides playing). You know, by getting into some bad "ruts" or "habits" that I will find hard to get away from in the future.

Again, thanks all for the comments and advice. In the past week I have intentionally played very little. When I do, I am trying to do actual free-rolls, trying to whittle down to 10% or so players remaining, then I figure those people may actually know what they're doing, and play like they /care/ about it.

The PokerStars tables though, can't say I like their format much for these (called Hubble?) because usually the game you qualify for, is one I can't play in due to family duties and all.

I have tried some micro-limit games (on Bodog) and can't say I do as well there. I really think my game is more suited for tournies. It almost has to be mental, especially at those micro-limits, but I do notice a difference. Maybe that isn't in /my/ play, but in others play that I'm noticing though.

I also noticed that at both PS and Bd the lowest buy-in for single-table sit-n-go is $5, so I'll be at the multi-table ones. Even those though I think are all 5 table ones (45 players) at both sites that have the $1.20 buy-in, not a real problem I don't think, but it probably has something to do with the "payout" schedule.

45 person $1.20 buy in, top 7 pay, 7th place gets 2 bucks.

Originally Posted by minttea

On Bodog, the $1 multitable tournaments often have HUGE overlays. I think they have $1+0, $1000 Guaranteed tourneys that like 400 people play in (they did the last time I played there) - that's an awfully good value, and I'd recommend trying those as soon as you feel comfortable with it.

I am certainly going to check that out. With that many people, and a low buy-in, I'm sure there will be a LOT more worse players there than me, granted they could all be more lucky than I, but come the first of the year, we'll see!

On an aside, I may start another thread for this, but what of notes. How, how-often, and what information does everyone use and put in there? Also, do you do it in the client, or with something like PokerTracker and let that auto-accrue the notes?