2005/2006/2007 World Series Replicas - Pre-Sale Offer !!!

[Deuce]

Originally Posted by sunderB

Now if someone misrepresents a replica by using a different pic, than that is simply fraud in my book and the buyer should be able to take action via e-bay and paypal.

And for the millionth time, (I know this may make Irish anger and he may attempt to personally come at me but I really don't care so here goes) what Matt is doing is also illegal right? So why should he be allowed to do what he does yet people who may attempt to sell these chips on ebay as the real deal are committing fraud? Whats the differences? Many folks on here also report users on ebay when there is a misleading item up for auction... Some people here just feel that they need to do their part to make sure people don't get ripped off, I don't ever report listings nor do I care if people make replicas that are too close to the originals and have never "reported" either but both are wrong and the people that do it are just going to have to learn with people reporting them.

[sunderB]

Originally Posted by Deuce

And for the millionth time, (I know this may make Irish anger and he may attempt to personally come at me but I really don't care so here goes) what Matt is doing is also illegal right? So why should he be allowed to do what he does yet people who may attempt to sell these chips on ebay as the real deal are committing fraud? Whats the differences? Many folks on here also report users on ebay when there is a misleading item up for auction... Some people here just feel that they need to do their part to make sure people don't get ripped off, I don't ever report listings nor do I care if people make replicas that are too close to the originals and have never "reported" either but both are wrong and the people that do it are just going to have to learn with people reporting them.

It is not illegal. Harrahs believes it to be illegal and it is not cost effective for Matt to fight the battle with them.

[Deuce]

Originally Posted by sunderB

It is not illegal. Harrahs believes it to be illegal and it is not cost effective for Matt to fight the battle with them.

That would be your opinion but according to the letter of the law it would seem to most of us that it is illegal. Read all about it right here...

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/h...4----000-.html

"Likely to cause confusion" is all that's necessary to be found in violation

You might make sure to read sub III #1114



And the Madrid Protocal covers international uses
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/h..._15_10_22.html

[JM]

Originally Posted by sunderB

It is not illegal. Harrahs believes it to be illegal and it is not cost effective for Matt to fight the battle with them.

Trademark and copyright infringements are illegal, why would you think otherwise? Whether Matt is actually guilty of this infringement has never been proven though. So there's a big difference between saying copying chip designs is illegal and he committed a crime. The first is a fact, the second is not.

[JM]

Well I frankly think that many of them would not approve of ANY replica designs no matter what you put on them, though I do like the idea of 'no collector value'!

Take a look at Roland's coconut beach chips, he went to great lengths to make sure they were sufficiently different from the condados, yet maintain the great look and feel of the condados, yet some collectors are still up in arms about them and want them stopped. Roland even got the blessing of BCC to make them, and they are VERY particular about what they will make (look at the PNY fractionals/ncvs that they rejected initially). So I doubt there is anything you could do as far as replicas that would satisfy some of the collectors.

Originally Posted by Matt

But what are the collectors so against? Apparently they think it's ok to buy/sell/trade stolen casino property. I don't see how selling these replicas would be any worse?

I would be happy to put "Replica Chip", "No collector value" etc etc on the chips just to get them off my back. Many CCGTCC members are also members of this forum btw and it's very apparent that it is the casino chip collectors that is most against my replica designs.

What to do? I can't continue my business here with these people actively working against me. I wish they would contact me and tell me exactly want they want me to do instead of working against me "in the dark".


Matt

[Irish Se7en]

Originally Posted by Matt

But what are the collectors so against? Apparently they think it's ok to buy/sell/trade stolen casino property. I don't see how selling these replicas would be any worse?

I would be happy to put "Replica Chip", "No collector value" etc etc on the chips just to get them off my back. Many CCGTCC members are also members of this forum btw and it's very apparent that it is the casino chip collectors that is most against my replica designs.

What to do? I can't continue my business here with these people actively working against me. I wish they would contact me and tell me exactly want they want me to do instead of working against me "in the dark".


Matt

I'm curious why no one wants to answer this question. It seems that whenever it's brought up people tend to ignore it. It's stealing, there's no gray area in it, when one grabs a rack of fractionals, they're stealing. The chips cost more than a quarter to make and the people walking out with them know it. Even the $1.00 chips could be considered stealing in some cases. However whenever the subject is broached, it's generally ignored by the masses.

It's quite different though when Matt makes a replica chip. Then it's lets gang up on Matt and the other vendors who make replica chips.

Deuce as I typed before if you need a box of tissues because your thin skined, I'll send a box to you if need be.


Irish

[Hokie-NC]

Originally Posted by Deuce

what Matt is doing is also illegal right? So why should he be allowed to do what he does yet people who may attempt to sell these chips on ebay as the real deal are committing fraud? Whats the differences?

This is a serious question, and I honestly do not know the answer. Is it illegal to take chips out of a casino? If it is not illegal, is it at least against casino rules?

I read a thread recently where someone was trying to pick up chips for other CT members on a Vegas trip. If I remember correctly he was prevented from doing this by one or two of the casinos.

[Deuce]

Originally Posted by Irish Se7en

I'm curious why no one wants to answer this question. It seems that whenever it's brought up people tend to ignore it. It's stealing, there's no gray area in it, when one grabs a rack of fractionals, they're stealing. The chips cost more than a quarter to make and the people walking out with them know it. Even the $1.00 chips could be considered stealing in some cases. However whenever the subject is broached, it's generally ignored by the masses.

It's quite different though when Matt makes a replica chip. Then it's lets gang up on Matt and the other vendors who make replica chips.

Deuce as I typed before if you need a box of tissues because your thin skined, I'll send a box to you if need be.


Irish

Im only asking because I really do not know... is it illegal to collect chips? I mean casinos like Hooters tend to make collectible chips that they know will be taken. Seems to me that it would be ok, what law is in violation when someone collect chips?

[imthatguy]

Originally Posted by Irish Se7en

I'm curious why no one wants to answer this question. It seems that whenever it's brought up people tend to ignore it. It's stealing, there's no gray area in it, when one grabs a rack of fractionals, they're stealing. The chips cost more than a quarter to make and the people walking out with them know it. Even the $1.00 chips could be considered stealing in some cases. However whenever the subject is broached, it's generally ignored by the masses.
Irish

You're missing some logic here. First of all, I highly doubt any casino pays even close to what the public buys them for. When you buy in the volume that they do, over a decade, I'm pretty sure the cost is quite low. Plus, from the casino's perspective: Person buys in at the cage for $100 in chips. He walks out of that casino with $100 in chips. Never comes back. Casino has your $100. Sure they're out the price of the chips, but come on, they've still turned a profit. Fractionals are driven by demand in the collector market. Sure it's "stealing" but you paid for them, so I'm not sure how to look at it. Plus, with casinos making limited runs of chips (Paris Pinups for example), who else are they made for BUT collectors? While it's probably never been discussed, the casinos are definitely making money off collectors.

[JM]

If the casinos consider it stealing then by all means let them enforce that and prosecute the people who are 'stealing' their chips. No different than enforcing their trademarks and copyrights. They simply choose not to do it because they make money on every non-fractional chip that walks away and never comes back.