How would you rule on this in your game...

EZMONEYRMJ · Tweet this Post! #1 02-16-2012, 07:27 AM

We had a hand last night that went to the river with two players. Player A made a bet, Player B was thinking what to do and layed his cards face up without saying anything. If I am correct, I believe the correct interpetation of the rule is that Player B's hand is dead and that there is no call. That is how we ruled on it. Is that a correct ruling or should we have ruled on it differently?

links_slayer · Tweet this Post! #2 02-16-2012, 07:30 AM

Is this a cash game or a tournament?

Felix · Tweet this Post! #3 02-16-2012, 07:33 AM

I think this depends on the rules your game applies. Personally i would rule the hand dead as well, since the player does it to get an advantage from possible reactions of his opponent. I think it's at least violating the etiquette in a huge degree. But in the casino where i work, the hand is not ruled dead

A move like that is forbidden, but the hand is still live with all options and the player will get a warning (which actually doesn't matter to most).

EasilyFound · Tweet this Post! #4 02-16-2012, 07:42 AM

This is really up to the house to decide. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with this. Sure it is to get a read, but so what? Why not? But this really is up to the house.

I think it is important to understand the reason for any rule, not just this rule. You shouldn't assume that for every situation there is a hard and fast rule that everyone uses. Surely such rules exist, but many times there are different rules that can apply and I think it is important for the host/house to decide which rule is best for the game that you are hosting. Understanding the purpose for a rule is, in my mind, more important than knowing "what is the rule" because there are a lot of situations that aren't covered by a rule or there can be nuances or factual variations in a situation. To make an appropriate ruling when one of that situations arises, you need to know the purpose of the rule you are applying.

lanyi · Tweet this Post! #5 02-16-2012, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felix

A move like that is forbidden, but the hand is still live with all options and the player will get a warning (which actually doesn't matter to most).

This is the correct rule and ruling a hand dead due to it being exposed in a cash game is wrong IMO.

Perosnally in cash games when heads up I couldn't care less. In my game when heads up players are free to expose their cards without the hand being ruled dead.

GameShaman · Tweet this Post! #6 02-16-2012, 08:02 AM

The hand is definitely live. When heads up, it is perfectly fine to show 1 or both cards to your opponent. Especially in a home game. The reason a lot of casinos/card rooms don't allow it these days is an over paranoid fear of collusion. To me, it has taken an element out of the game. I will always allow showing of 1 or both cards while heads up. It is most definitely not a fold.

~Jeff

B.C. · Tweet this Post! #7 02-16-2012, 08:02 AM

In our game: heads up in a cash game, they can say or do pretty much anything to get a read/call/induce a bet.

Tournament dead, but I hate tourneys so I could be wrong.

links_slayer · Tweet this Post! #8 02-16-2012, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by links_slayer

Is this a cash game or a tournament?

Are you guys telling me that you would answer the same regardless of the answer to this question? I sincerely hope this is not the case.....

Harlequin011 · Tweet this Post! #9 02-16-2012, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EZMONEYRMJ

We had a hand last night that went to the river with two players. Player A made a bet, Player B was thinking what to do and layed his cards face up without saying anything. If I am correct, I believe the correct interpetation of the rule is that Player B's hand is dead and that there is no call. That is how we ruled on it. Is that a correct ruling or should we have ruled on it differently?

Correct ruling follows the house rule. Is there anything prohibiting this?

Make a house rule for exposing cards heads up. I like to allow it. I was a the Tournament Director for the first two years of the Cincinnati Reds Community Fund Poker. We had a player do this in the middle of the tourney. Rules state "protect your hand at all times" I DQ'd that hand and WWIII broke out. Rules is rules. Even though I felt it should be allowed. On reflection, I should have given him a warning.

GameShaman · Tweet this Post! #10 02-16-2012, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by links_slayer

Are you guys telling me that you would answer the same regardless of the answer to this question? I sincerely hope this is not the case.....

Yes. If it is heads up and the player wants to get a read and give away free information to the table at the same time, I always allow it. I have no fear of collusion.