Another Cash Game Etiquette Question

bluesman250 · Tweet this Post! #1 12-01-2010, 11:33 AM

I just read the post by wagsgt (http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/home-p...-question.html) and agree that cashing out without notice after hitting a huge hand is a tool move that warrants a stern warning or even an unvitation. We have a guy who does this: he'll hit a huge hand at the cash table ($150+), announce he's leaving in 30 minutes (our minimum; he'd get up immediately if he could), then proceed to fold everything except AA or KK until he leaves. It's his right, I suppose, but it's still annoying as hell and violates the spirit of fair competition, IMO. He also complains about the buy-in and incessantly counts his chips at the table...

Anyway, here's the scenario in question: Player x announces at midnight that he'll be leaving in one hour. At 1am, he's on a huge rush and announces he'll stay for another hour. At 2am, he's still doing very well and then says he doesn't know when he's leaving. By the time the game ends at 4am, he's got about $600 in front of him...about 70% of the chips on the table. During that time, BTW, he was in a number of huge pots with several different players.

It's my general understanding that the other players want the opportunity to win their money back and therefore don't mind the player staying past his previously announced departuire time. That said, if he hadn't stayed they wouldn't have lost as much dough.

Bad etiquette?

jojobinks · Tweet this Post! #2 12-01-2010, 11:41 AM

no, it's not. i know that people like to win and hate to lose. and people like when others do what they say they'll do, but this is simply something you'll have to live with. players come and go from a cash game as they wish, and they're not required to do any more than pay blinds.

if you want to make some rules, of course, and you're willing to deal with the consequences, go for it. someone posted the other day that he requires his players to play til midnight. you certainly can't dictate a guy play hands. as a hypothetical...what if the same guy had played all night, never did anything annoying and won the $600. then he didn't come back for a month. would that be annoying to you?

the fact is, from now until you're 97 years old and can't play any more b/c of your dementia, it's one long cash session. when a guy leaves this week doesn't matter. hit and runs don't matter. bad beats don't matter. play on and control your own emotions. (b/c i think this is what all these threads are about...poker players that have a hard time controlling their annoyance with players that don't act the way we wish they would).

fivevsone · Tweet this Post! #3 12-01-2010, 12:22 PM

We have a guy who feels bad about leaving a big winner, and will call every hand for the last 30 minutes if he is up 100 or more (1-2 limit game). Feels like it helps with game preservation.

Your situation sounds perfect. If the worm turns, and he donks off a couple 100 would you let him up and leave, or force him to stay the whole hour?

fivevsone · Tweet this Post! #4 12-01-2010, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jojobinks

the fact is, from now until you're 97 years old and can't play any more b/c of your dementia, it's one long cash session. when a guy leaves this week doesn't matter. hit and runs don't matter. bad beats don't matter. play on and control your own emotions. (b/c i think this is what all these threads are about...poker players that have a hard time controlling their annoyance with players that don't act the way we wish they would).

In our home game we have to make sure we dont clean out the newbies to much, and in some cases, teach them up, so they stay in the game (over the months/years).

If someone hits and runs in our game, the effect could be to kill the game, by cleaning out and discouraging the weaker players.

Game preservation is the most important thing for our crew. I guess we try to find the balancing point between a friendly monthly game, and a cutthroat casino game.

Krafticus · Tweet this Post! #5 12-01-2010, 12:43 PM

I honestly think that the only bad etiquette in a cash game is not following the standard rules. I've had all of the before mentioned situations arise at my place, and it really doesn't phase me too much.

- The hit-n-run .. chances are, this person will be back and if the same players are at the game, this person will have a preverbial bullseye on them. In a home game like this, I would say most people that hit-n-run aren't the greatest players and will feel on top of the world winning. Let them carry that forward to the next game when they lose 3-4 buy-ins and see what happens next. Sometimes, I have players that carpooled and 1 guy is running good in the tournament while the other is running good in the cash game. Tournament guy takes a bad beat and bubbles, or cashes low, and wants to leave. He doesn't want to wait 15-30 min for the cash player, and tells him.. "lets go or find a ride". I'm cool with that

- The hot streak guy .. Happened the other month playing $.25/$.50 with $60 max buyins. One guy who is super LAG was up over $500 after ~ 3 hours. Said 3 times that he was leaving in 30 min or 2 complete orbits. No problem. he then proceeded to play wrecklessly and lost EVERYTHING. Also had a few hit some heaters after their announcement and almost feel guilty for leaving, so they stay and "try" to donk some $$ back, but always seem to hit those 2-3 outters. Either way, I know they are good.

- The Uber tight guy - Just as with the other players, you get 1, maybe 2 that plays maybe 1-2 hands per hour. Sometimes they hit a big hand and just sit on those chips all night. Some people open their range against these guys a little too much and get upset that their 6-7 suited can't crack his Ace's with a flush/straight draw and/or top pair. So be it. It happens and it isn't bad etiquette to sit and fold. If they choose to play super tight, so be it.

- The "i was on a hot streak but am cooling off guy".. so, some people are in God mode for the 1st few hours, and are up big. They then go card dead and or take some bad beats and realize they are starting to lose too much. They say they are leaving without much notice. that is ok with me. Yeah, they are taking money off of the table when they are in a downswing, but they know that. usually, this person will rebuy a lot early when the action isn't hitting them, so I don't mind. Cash out, come back, and I will take your money another night.

Basically, in a home game, follow your home game rules. If you don't, then we have bad etiquette. Big winners shouldn't be "penalized" after winning that they HAVE to sit and fold for a specific period of time. What if they say, I am leaving in 15 min as they are the SB. In 13 1/2 min, after some slow hands, it gets to this person being the BB and they want to leave? Do you let them leave or make them stay and post 2 blinds?

In my opinion, and I sort of follow JoJo on this, it sounds like the OP's had a losing or very small winning session and are upset that they weren't given a chance to get the $$ back. play devil's advocate and assume, hey, now I don't have to worry about going busto against the monster stack and now you can run over the avg/small stacks. If you don't let it get to you, you should be able to get it back at the next game. Take notes (mental or physical) on the players and go get 'em.

Sorry for the long winded answer, but I wanted to voice my opinion. Again, my game, no time rules are in place. 90% of my players give notice, which is nice. I don't worry about that 10% because they are either typically bad players and will be back, or they had a good time and will play another day.

Mark

bluesman250 · Tweet this Post! #6 12-01-2010, 01:02 PM

Great points, as were JoJo's. We've got about 30 guys that play regularly in our game, which I co-host, and my only goal is keeping it fun and respectful so people come back. Of course I like to win, but those who are so focused on the money that they can't have fun if they don't probably shoudn't play in the first place, IMO.

The other guy (announced he was leaving but stayed) was me

, and I just wanted to make sure I wansn't pissing people off.

Anyway, thanks for the perspective...it's a good way to look at it.

Cheers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krafticus

I honestly think that the only bad etiquette in a cash game is not following the standard rules. I've had all of the before mentioned situations arise at my place, and it really doesn't phase me too much.

- The hit-n-run .. chances are, this person will be back and if the same players are at the game, this person will have a preverbial bullseye on them. In a home game like this, I would say most people that hit-n-run aren't the greatest players and will feel on top of the world winning. Let them carry that forward to the next game when they lose 3-4 buy-ins and see what happens next. Sometimes, I have players that carpooled and 1 guy is running good in the tournament while the other is running good in the cash game. Tournament guy takes a bad beat and bubbles, or cashes low, and wants to leave. He doesn't want to wait 15-30 min for the cash player, and tells him.. "lets go or find a ride". I'm cool with that

- The hot streak guy .. Happened the other month playing $.25/$.50 with $60 max buyins. One guy who is super LAG was up over $500 after ~ 3 hours. Said 3 times that he was leaving in 30 min or 2 complete orbits. No problem. he then proceeded to play wrecklessly and lost EVERYTHING. Also had a few hit some heaters after their announcement and almost feel guilty for leaving, so they stay and "try" to donk some $$ back, but always seem to hit those 2-3 outters. Either way, I know they are good.

- The Uber tight guy - Just as with the other players, you get 1, maybe 2 that plays maybe 1-2 hands per hour. Sometimes they hit a big hand and just sit on those chips all night. Some people open their range against these guys a little too much and get upset that their 6-7 suited can't crack his Ace's with a flush/straight draw and/or top pair. So be it. It happens and it isn't bad etiquette to sit and fold. If they choose to play super tight, so be it.

- The "i was on a hot streak but am cooling off guy".. so, some people are in God mode for the 1st few hours, and are up big. They then go card dead and or take some bad beats and realize they are starting to lose too much. They say they are leaving without much notice. that is ok with me. Yeah, they are taking money off of the table when they are in a downswing, but they know that. usually, this person will rebuy a lot early when the action isn't hitting them, so I don't mind. Cash out, come back, and I will take your money another night.

Basically, in a home game, follow your home game rules. If you don't, then we have bad etiquette. Big winners should be "penalized" after winning that they HAVE to sit and fold for a specific period of time. What if they say, I am leaving in 15 min as they are the SB. In 13 1/2 min, after some slow hands, it gets to this person being the BB and they want to leave? Do you let them leave or make them stay and post 2 blinds?

In my opinion, and I sort of follow JoJo on this, it sounds like the OP's had a losing or very small winning session and are upset that they weren't given a chance to get the $$ back. play devil's advocate and assume, hey, now I don't have to worry about going busto against the monster stack and now you can run over the avg/small stacks. If you don't let it get to you, you should be able to get it back at the next game. Take notes (mental or physical) on the players and go get 'em.

Sorry for the long winded answer, but I wanted to voice my opinion. Again, my game, no time rules are in place. 90% of my players give notice, which is nice. I don't worry about that 10% because they are either typically bad players and will be back, or they had a good time and will play another day.

Mark

rimmerryan · Tweet this Post! #7 12-01-2010, 03:58 PM

[quote=bluesman250;1018941]The other guy (announced he was leaving but stayed) was me

, and I just wanted to make sure I wansn't pissing people off...quote]

You really should have left...

DarPodo · Tweet this Post! #8 12-01-2010, 04:48 PM

I would never consider staying longer than you've announced "bad etiquette". I'd welcome it. Stay as long as the cards are running.

toad94 · Tweet this Post! #9 12-01-2010, 05:41 PM

With some less-gracious players it probably doesn't matter what departure time you announce or how you play before you go--if you leave with a big chunk of their cash they might still act like a...

cdnmoose · Tweet this Post! #10 12-01-2010, 05:55 PM

The whole idea of announcing when you are leaving is to give the other players a shot at getting their money back. It also prevents anyone complaining if someone hits a huge hand and leaves shortly after if he has already announced that he has to go.

However announcing and then staying longer only gives more action to the remaining players. Whether you continue to win or lose is immaterial.