Whats The Ruling

DodgeViper · Tweet this Post! #1 10-09-2010, 09:35 AM

During a CASH home game two players are heads up. One player is holding pocket 3's and the other player is holding pocket 9's. Pre-flop there has been some betting but nothing that would change the outcome. The flop is 9 3 8. Now the player holding the 3's makes a $15.00 bet and the bet is called. The turn card comes out and it's a A. Another round of betting and the river card, K comes out of which does not help anyone. The player holding pocket 3's moves All-In. The player with pocket 9's takes 5 minutes to make a decision but this is where all hell broke out.

The player with 9's says to the other player I know I have you beat and flips his cards over in front of him without announcing that he calls or folds. The player with pocket 3's turns his cards over while reaching for the chips and the player with the set of 9's says I call. The player with the set of 3's says you mucked your cards and the other player says no I did not I just flip my cards over and then says I call. The player with the set of 3's is pissed. After some discussion it was ruled that at a cash game a player can flip his or her cards over without announcing the player’s intent to call or fold.

This ruling was backed up by a casino dealer who was at the table. She says at a cash game this can and does happen. What’s everyone else think?

Meddler · Tweet this Post! #2 10-09-2010, 09:50 AM

I recently played in a cash game in Vegas where the exact same thing occured. The ruling is restricted to heads up whereas cards can be shown before a call or bet without being considered mucked. Sounds like you guys made the right call.
Note that this is different than tournament play, in which case it would be a dead hand. At least that's what I was told.

hardhouseinc · Tweet this Post! #3 10-09-2010, 10:16 AM

Heads up / cash game you can show cards to get a reaction.
I dont know WTF he was worried about for a 5 min delay...
Id call slow roll on the guy for taking so long with the set of 9s.
good god. If you are folding there, take up Solitaire genius..
It doesnt sound like it was any serious money either by the flop bet.
And if he was that sure he was winning, why take so long, and if he
thought he was ever beat, whey CALL the flop? Id tell the guy to quit
being such a duche and slowing up the game for a hand hes obviously calling
with.

abby99 · Tweet this Post! #4 10-09-2010, 10:20 AM

Easy. Set of nines wins. That hand is not dead in these circumstances (cash game, HU, cards exposed).

albie · Tweet this Post! #5 10-09-2010, 11:13 AM

I'd declare the set of nines dead just because he's wasted 5 minutes of my life slow rolling. He calls on an AKx flop with 99, he's never ever folding when he makes a set.
Mostly showing your hand is ok in a cash game but it's not always the case.

DodgeViper · Tweet this Post! #6 10-09-2010, 01:53 PM

Well I have to clarify the order of cards as I had gotten up to go to the restroom and walked in into the family room after the hand. The flop was 9-3-8 with the turn being A and the river being K. The all-in came after the K was exposed. Either way the right call was made. Being heads up I can understand the turning over of the cards... Thanks everyone as the guy still believes he was the victim... Oh well I lost a first time player who had deep pockets and would have been an asset to our game...

abby99 · Tweet this Post! #7 10-09-2010, 04:13 PM

You lost a player who tried to take the pot away from the player with the best hand, based on a technicality, and who quit the game because the ruling correctly went against him. No great loss IMO, deep pockets or not. Gotcha poker, pfft!

whataboutj · Tweet this Post! #8 10-09-2010, 06:39 PM

The correct call was definitely made - but I understand not wanting to lose an ATM in your game too. Try talking to pocket 3s after he cools down -- tell him it was a poker lesson and now he knows what's allowed in cash games.

joepro · Tweet this Post! #9 10-09-2010, 07:02 PM

Allowing players to show cards is a house rule and not the same at every casino.

BGinGA · Tweet this Post! #10 10-09-2010, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abby99

You lost a player who tried to take the pot away from the player with the best hand, based on a technicality, and who quit the game because the ruling correctly went against him. No great loss IMO, deep pockets or not. Gotcha poker, pfft!

^^^ Cannot be said any better. /thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by joepro

Allowing players to show cards is a house rule and not the same at every casino.

The ruling is straight from Robert's Rules of Poker, and true of every casino non-tournament game I've ever played.