Big ruling question

ige14 · Tweet this Post! #1 01-01-2010, 07:39 PM

Ok 10 player tournament two hours in and we realize there are tow Jack of spades. No one is out and we decide to start over. I didn't think this was the right ruling. Can anyone tell me the correct ruling.

whataboutj · Tweet this Post! #2 01-01-2010, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ige14

Ok 10 player tournament two hours in and we realize there are tow Jack of spades. No one is out and we decide to start over. I didn't think this was the right ruling. Can anyone tell me the correct ruling.

Start over as in start the entire tournament over? That is not the correct rule at all. You start the hand over and get rid of the deck that is spoiled for a fresh deck.

Here are a couple of rules from Robets rules of poker regarding this issue:

4. If two cards of the same rank and suit are found, all action is void, and all chips in the pot are returned to the players who wagered them (subject to next rule).
5. A player who knows the deck is defective has an obligation to point this out. If such a player instead tries to win a pot by taking aggressive action (trying for a freeroll ), the player may lose the right to a refund, and the chips may be required to stay in the pot for the next deal.

Here is a similar rule for missing cards

10. One or more cards missing from the deck does not invalidate the results of a hand.

I could not find anywhere in Roberts rules that states you completely start the tournament over. Personally if that was what the host decided to do & I

was a chip leader I would have been pissed. I also would have asked for my buy in back and left. Starting over after 2 hours is crazy assuming nobody knew about the issue with the two Jacks everyone was playing with the same knowledge base

Just my opinion though

dew4au · Tweet this Post! #3 01-01-2010, 08:07 PM

I think you're right on, j. If that was the ruling, I would also leave. Looks like someone needs to invest in unique setups!

Mango · Tweet this Post! #4 01-01-2010, 08:21 PM

Everyone have been equally advantaged/disadvantaged for the 2 hours so there is no need to restart the tourney. I would have just changed decks and kept going.

cgraham86 · Tweet this Post! #5 01-01-2010, 10:11 PM

Agreed. Was this put to everyone for some half-a$$ed vote, or was it just up and decided by the host?

hardhouseinc · Tweet this Post! #6 01-01-2010, 10:14 PM

Yah, its kind of unfair. Everyone had the same deck and as long as no one knows, I dont see it as a problem. If I was a short stack like chip and a chair, ok yah Id vote start over of course. LOL.
But then you are screwing the big stacks. I cant see starting over that far in.

Xhawk · Tweet this Post! #7 01-02-2010, 08:06 AM

Agree w/Mango for sure.

Everyone in the tourney was playing under the same positives/negatives of having a bad deck in play. No one had any advantage or disadvantage. As soon as the error was realized, Id swap decks (double checking it of course), and the tourney plays on.

If I spent 2 hours playing well and growing my stack, then had to start over, id definitly take my leave.

StevenH72 · Tweet this Post! #8 01-02-2010, 09:52 AM

Again, I would be pretty pissed if the game was started over.

jamby · Tweet this Post! #9 01-02-2010, 10:03 AM

This happened in our micro stakes cash home game a couple of years ago at another host's house. A couple of hours into the game I noticed that there were two Qd on the table and brought it to everybody's attention. In similar fashion to what is described in the OP, the host unilaterally decided the correct action was to return everybody's buy-in and start over. We corrected the fouled deck and started anew. There was quite a lot of discussion both against and in favor of the action, basically depending on whether a player was up or down at the time, but the game did go on. In our case, it kind what pretty standard the way we addressed the problem since we always play by host rules in all matters related to buy-in, rulings, etc. I'm crazy careful now about decks, checking them before and after each game whether I'm hosting or not.

Captn_All_In · Tweet this Post! #10 01-02-2010, 10:08 AM

What is really crazy is that after two hours nobody was out...must be some deep stacks or long levels....

Now this isn't crazier than starting over, but it seems really odd. Here's a thought to ask the person who made the call. What if two guys were out and the jacks had nothing to do with it? Do you start over and let them back in??