[Harlequin011]

Final table of a High School fund raising tournament.


post-flop action...

Two players left.

Player one bets enough to cover player two. Player two calls and tables his cards showing two pair. Player one shows nothing then drops his cards face down directly in front of him.

*** This is where the dealer called for a floor and I arrive ***

• Player two is asking if the cards are folded/mucked.

• The cards are nowhere near the discard pile and the dealer hasn't touched them. They are still face down.

What is the correct call here? My ruling for better or worse to come later.

[ACE'S FULL]

I would say that if the player didnt make a motion to muck and just dropped his cards in front of him then I would say they are still in play.

[NoFear]

IMO if it is face down but not in the muck (didn't pass the betting line) it is still good.

[scottwire]

I believe the dealer just flips over the cards and plays out the hand.

The original reason hands were turned face up on tournament all ins were to prevent collusion right? I don't think you're technically allowed to muck unless the cards are somehow unretrievable.

[Harlequin011]

Originally Posted by ACE'S FULL

I would say that if the player didnt make a motion to muck and just dropped his cards in front of him then I would say they are still in play.

good point, but player one did admit that he was trying to get player two to fold.

And he apparently made as if to fold his hand.

[StevenH72]

If the cards are not in the muck they are still in play imo

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by Harlequin011

good point, but player one did admit that he was trying to get player two to fold.

And he apparently made as if to fold his hand.

it doesn't matter. all the chips are in the middle (figuratively). they both still have their hands. action has completed. barring an actual muck (not a pretend muck), the dealer should take over here.

if the guy shot an angle, he shot an angle. what are we gonna do, kill his hand b/c of it? it may be slightly slimy, but it's not a rules violation.

[Harlequin011]

Originally Posted by jojobinks

it doesn't matter. all the chips are in the middle (figuratively). they both still have their hands. action has completed. barring an actual muck (not a pretend muck), the dealer should take over here.

if the guy shot an angle, he shot an angle. what are we gonna do, kill his hand b/c of it? it may be slightly slimy, but it's not a rules violation.

1.) dealer's are volunteers and not very good. Not that all volunteers are bad, but this one was. He could have a thread of his own. His hearts in the right place but one day I will strangle him. This thread will probably be called into evidence.

2.) I didn't get the feeling of a angle shooting. Player one just got caught bluffing and player one wanted to know if the hand was dead.


I ruled that since there was a player that was all-in and had action the cards must be tabled and the hand completed.


* It went runner-runner to give player one the hand. Player two was not happy and I talked him off the ledge for about 15 min afterwards. Citing collusion and general tournament rules.

[dad604]

There are two points here.

1. The action not a muck in any sense of the work.
2. When all players are all-in, there is no mucking of cards. In tourney situation, the cards are faced up and the board is deal out.

[jspearm1983]

I wouldn't call it a muck. To prevent collusion in tourneys, I think the cards are required to play face up with no option to muck in this situation.