[jamby]

The thread title says it all.

I was playing in a home game last weekend and after a couple of hours we realized that there were two Qh and no Jh. It was pretty obvious to us as to Qh were on the board at the same time.

There was a lot of discussion and most of it revolved around one particular player who was way ahead for the night. A married couple was hosting and both were seated at opposite ends of the table. The wife was proceeding to take a vote as to how to handle it with the two options being give everybody back their buy-in (it was a cash game) or exchange the deck and continue play. She was planning to have majority rule in the decision.

While she was preparing the vote, her husband made a decision to return everybody's buy-in and did so. The guy who was way ahead was obviously pretty shaken and never rebounded. A couple of people gave part of their returned money back to this player. Most did not. We continued playing for a couple of hours more and the momentum of the game changed dramatically. Oddly, play tightened up quite a bit.

So, there you have it. That's what did happen. How would you have handled it if it was your home game? Oh yeah, the deck was one of those retired casino decks they sell in Casino gift shops. It must have been put back together incorrectly and never caught by quality control. It was thrown out once the discovery was made.

-jamby

[shadesofgrey]

I would get a new deck and start from there. I dont think its right to completely start over again & take all the winnings back from the player who is ahead. its not his fault the deck was bunk & you were two hours in before anyone noticed.

obviously house rules trump anything and everything I just said.

[adam42]

Both options appear justified for a home game... I'm glad I haven't run into this problem at my game. I would also feel inclined to leave it to a majority vote. Good lesson learned and should be advice to each game to check the deck before the game begins and occasionally throughout it. Good topic for discussion, though.

[legend]

every one was on the same playing field. if that was me way ahead. I would have been mad. If I were losing I wouldn't expect any money back....just my opinion

[h-train]

I've ran across this a few times, usually it is just one card missing and who knows how long it has been out because it gets found under the table. Of course in that situation there is nothing you can do, the card could have been out one hand or all night. I did have the same thing happen with one of those casino decks, duplicates of one card and missing the other in sequence right before it. I can't remember the card, we just threw the deck away continued the game with a new deck and didn't return any money. We were all under agreement that it was fair for everyone.

[dajebriza]

I agree, the winning player had the same chances to win or lose with a bad deck as any of the others, but for whatever reason - luck, good play, etc. he was ahead. It was still a level playing field for all the players, even with the bad deck.

I think punishing the player ahead by taking his chips and redistributing them is a really bad decision. And the "popular vote" is flawed too because it will be in most players best interest to vote to have their chips returned. Only the player who was ahead is likely going to have the solitary vote to keep his chips.

I think that decision could have a lasting negative effect on that home game, now that it's been demonstrated that it's not beyond the realm of possiblity to have all your winnings confiscated by a majority or house decision.

I think the only way you could justify that ruling is if you could show the winning player had knowledge of and used the advantage of the duplicate queen/missing jack. Then it would have been an unlevel playing field.

[tomb1]

Originally Posted by h-train

. . . we just threw the deck away continued the game with a new deck and didn't return any money. We were all under agreement that it was fair for everyone.

That's the rules as I understand it. All prior action is completed and cannot be changed. But the hand where the irregularity is discovered is dead and the bets returned for that hand only. Here's what Robert C. has to say:

4. If two cards of the same rank and suit are found, all action is void, and all chips in the pot are returned to the players who wagered them (subject to next rule).
5. A player who knows the deck is defective has an obligation to point this out. If such a player instead tries to win a pot by taking aggressive action (trying for a freeroll), the player may lose the right to a refund, and the chips may be required to stay in the pot for the next deal.

Now for a home game where everyone agrees to go back to the beginning, that's certainly OK, but only if all agree IMO.

[FreckleDaddy]

I think it's crazy that they decided for everyone to be given their money back. I assume it was a friendly home game, but I can't see any logic in the decision. Like stated above everyone had the same advantage/disadvantage all night. The only time I could I justify making 'the winner' give the money back, is if the host was the person way up. I believe it's their responsibility to make sure the deck is good before playing. There's a good chance I would get up and leave a game if someone made that decision, regardless of whether I was ahead or not.

Fd

[ky70]

Unless there is suspicion/proof that someone knew about the fouled deck and (resulting in an advantage), no way money should be handed back...the "playing field" was level for all participants.

[NoFear]

It would not happen to our home game since we count every card on the table before we play. Thanks to a friend now I have a same habit and count every card before I put them to action.