[the3rd]

Once again this is a rules related thread, but doesn't involve a home game. A little detail follows, but no spoilers.

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:45:49
Players Take a 10 Minute Break
There are rumors of an issue with some late-arriving players' stacks being blinded off while others' stacks were not. Players are taking a short break while the floor resolves the problem.

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 12:22:03
Empty Chairs at Empty Tables
Though the cards went in the air on time for this event, players have been taking their time getting into their seats, electing to chat it up with each other instead. On one of the first hands dealt, Andy Black raised it up with 2-3-5-6-K only to not get a single customer as there was only one other guy at his table at the time. Steve Zolotow and Erik Seidel had four empty chairs at their table. After Zolotow raised it up and collected the 650 in blinds and antes he said to the dealer "hurry up and deal fast before these guys get here."

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 14:06:41
Cards Back in the Air
To put it bluntly, many of the players aren't happy. Without writing a novel, we'll try to explain it as best as we can. The controversy that spurred the 10 minute break is as follows. Berry Johnston bought in late to this event, and as he was seated, he was given a stack of 9,000 chips. Some of the players that showed up late were blinded off, and showed up to stacks less than 9,000. Several players at Berry's table (most notably Steve Z) refused to keep playing until the issue was resolved. The tournament directors ordered players to complete the hand they were on, and take a 10 minute break, while tournament directors could make a decision. Tournament director Jimmy Sommerfeld came back quoting TDA rule # 81, which states that if a player registers late, he is penalized a one time chip penalty of up to three rounds of blinds and antes. The decision was made that Berry should be assessed three rounds of blinds and antes, which is 1,800 chips. Many of the players who pre bought in, but showed up late to their stacks started with significantly less than that. This reportedly includes Amir Vahedi, who was subsequently eliminated from the tournament. This is going to continue to develop, and we will keep you updated on all related issues.

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 14:42:51
Hellmuth Arrives So Late He's Nearly Eliminated
Phil Hellmuth just arrived at the tournament a full 2 1/2 hours late to discover he was nearly down to the felt after being blinded off for the duration of his absence. Naturally, Phil wasn't pleased. Since Hellmuth was a pre-registered player, he'll have to begin play after the break with the 1,150 he has left in his stack, rather than the 8,200 late-registration players were permitted to start with (a fresh 10,000 stack minus three rounds of blinds and antes totaling 1,800). In essence, the players who arrived late and did late registration were afforded an unfair advantage over the players, like Hellmuth, who elected to pre-register. Had Hellmuth's last chips been anted off before he arrived at the Rio, he would have been eliminated from the tournament and not permitted to rebuy. So, in effect, our unscheduled break due to the controversy ended up saving Hellmuth.

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 14:53:29
Phil Hellmuth Doubles Up, Simmers Down
Phil Hellmuth moved all in for 925 and Don Zewin called. Hellmuth drew one and Zewin stood pat. Hellmuth turned over 2-3-5-7-8, besting Zewin's T-8 low and took the pot. Phil has been unnaturally calm about the situation regarding his blinded-off starting stack. He has accepted the tournament director's ruling and said "the best we can do is make sure the rules are changed for next year." Hellmuth made his first rebuy shortly after the conclusion of this hand.

[the3rd]

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 14:58:39
More Clarification
Rule 81 of the TDA rules is actually quite clear. A player who registers late will receive a penalty of up to three rounds. According to tournament director Jimmy Sommerfeld, any player who's stack is reduced more that that can appeal BEFORE he is dealt a hand. I can't find that part in the rule sheet I have, but I do not have all the rules in front of me. One of about 1,000 interesting issues arising is the fact that Phil Hellmuth, who preregistered was down to about 1,000 chips - and only just took his rebuy. A myriad of discussions with players and around player discussions during the last 45 minutes, with everyone from Daniel Negreanu, to Jeff Lisandro to Todd Brunson chiming in shows me that this will be a hot topic in the 'off season', and that all of these types of issues need to be resolved. This has been a tough day to be a tournament director at the WSOP. We can only hope issues of what to do in situations like this can be resolved.

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 15:13:15
Gus Hansen Takes a Seat
Gus Hansen just sat down at the tournament. He, unlike Phil Hellmuth, was a late registrant. So Hansen will start with 8,200 chips per WSOP Rule 81. Had Hansen pre-registered, he would have blinded out by now.

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 17:41:05
"Roses are Red, My Love"
Violets are blue." While the rest of the field is looking a little fatigued tonight, Jeffrey Lisandro is in fine song.

Damn, everyone must have been partying like a rock star the night before.
Go AfC!

EDIT: Minh Ly is my hero!

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 17:17:10
Ly Pushes Hellmuth off a Hand with a Full House
Phil Hellmuth raised to 3,000 pre-draw and the action was folded around to Minh Ly in the big blind. He counted out his chips and thought for a moment before taking action. "Bet it all, Minh!" said Hellmuth. "OK, I will" replied Ly as he moved all in. Hellmuth folded and Ly turned over a pat full house with a laugh.

[Wooly1]

Seems to me this is really easy! The late registrants are now bieng handled correctly they chose to register late and took the chance that maybe they wouldnt get in at all but did and now take the 1800 chip penalty! Just as it should be! The "others" who registered before hand and were nearly blinded and ante'd down to nothing have only themselves to blame... they registered, knew when it started and made the choice to sit around and bull **** or come late to make the "grand" entrance and as such need to pay the price for doing so!

[Diamond_Don]

Wed, 04 Jul 2007 12:22:03
Empty Chairs at Empty Tables
Though the cards went in the air on time for this event, players have been taking their time getting into their seats, electing to chat it up with each other instead. On one of the first hands dealt, Andy Black raised it up with 2-3-5-6-K only to not get a single customer as there was only one other guy at his table at the time. Steve Zolotow and Erik Seidel had four empty chairs at their table. After Zolotow raised it up and collected the 650 in blinds and antes he said to the dealer "hurry up and deal fast before these guys get here."

How are there ante's. All of the events antes don't kick in untill level 4. About 4 hours into the event with hour blinds.

[the3rd]

Originally Posted by Diamond_Don

How are there ante's. All of the events antes don't kick in untill level 4. About 4 hours into the event with hour blinds.

Tournament Lowball is a different animal. There are only two betting rounds.

Players begin with 10,000 in tournament chips. First player to enter the pot must open with a raise. Re-Buy chips may be purchased when you are at or below 10,000 in chips during the first three hours. At the end of the third round, players may purchase a single (10,000 chips) or double (20,000 chips) add-on for $5,000 or $10,000 respectively. All levels will last 60 minutes. All Re-Buys and Add-Ons must be made with Casino Chips or Tournament Buy-In Chips.

Level 1
Ante: 50 Blinds: 100/200
Level 2
Ante:100 Blinds 200/400
Level 3
Ante:150 Blinds 300/600
End Rebuys

[the3rd]

I have moved on to Card Player updates.

Wed Jul 04 15:10:00 PDT 2007
What Of Phil?
With all this talk about players arriving late, where in the Amazon Room was Phil Hellmuth? Hellmuth had preregistered for the event a few days ago, so his chip stack had been blinded down to almost nothing. Hellmuth arrrived during the break between the second and third levels, and was greeted with a stack of $1,100 down from $10,000. Hellmuth immediately met with the tournament directors to discuss, but eventually Hellmuth took his seat next to Doyle Brunson, and began to light-heartedly discuss the snafu. Hellmuth immediately asked Daniel Negreanu about the details of who had constructed the structure for this event. Negreanu assured him that he personally had constructed revised structures for use next year. Hellmuth then began to playfully needle Howard Lederer on his hand in setting the blind structures. Lederer simply shot back, "You want all the tournaments to be $5-$10 for the first four hours so you can show up late and miss nothing." It was quietly pointed out also that the unplanned break this tournament took, actually saved Hellmuth from completely missing the entire tournament. Hellmuth would have been completely blinded out in the second level, but because the players stopped play, he was able to get to his chips before he lost them all. Hellmuth then moved all in on his first hand, Don Zewin reraised to isolate him, and got his wish. Hellmuth showed 8-5-3-2-A, as he dropped the Ace to draw a 7.

Add Howard Lederer to my hero list.

[whataboutj]

I am 50/50 on Helmuth. I know he's a good player but he is a total A$$

[Slim7]

Maybe this will finally teach Helmuth a lesson about showing up late to "make an entrance" he is a good player but a real jack a**

[dad604]

It just amazes me that the dealers don't know the rules and didn't take the blinds from the empty spot at this level. This is suppose to be the top event.

[sunderB]

Originally Posted by dad604

It just amazes me that the dealers don't know the rules and didn't take the blinds from the empty spot at this level. This is suppose to be the top event.

Sounds like they did, but the problem (depending on whose side you choose) was that when players were arriving late and they prepaid, they had significantly less chips than the people that registered after the start of the tourney that were starting at the same time. Late registrations were only penalized 1000 chips and not blinded off as that is the way the rules for late registrants works.

I am kind of on the fence with this one because on one hand the system is flawwed IMO. It is definitley not fair for Helmuth to sit down with only 1150 in chips (or whatever it was) at the same time Gus Hansen sits down with $9000 because he registered after the start of the tourney.

On other hand, Helmuth knew when the event started. Why not just show up on time? Oh I know, it's because he has a HUGE ego and needs to make an "entrance"