[Captn_All_In]

How many times have you guys heard this at your games?

I ask because it has happened a few times at some of the games I run and usually it was only between two people and after it was said the group waited for the other guy to decide what he was going to do.

The comment is made when it is the players turn to act, and like I said it has never been a problem until two Saturdays ago, and then again last Thursday.

Now this comment became an issue during a tournament that was nearing 5 handed play. Four players are involved (A,B,C,D), Post flop player A first to act looks at player D and says "I'll put you all in". (Player D is me and I have two pair, which many times in these cabin games is good enough to win, while knocking out multiple players!!)

While D is in the tank B folds, then another player not involved in the hand but still in the tournament begins to tell A that he cannot make that comment and that he should just go all in, A argues that he only wants to be what D has and as it nears confontation D speaks up and says, "relax....I fold". Then as A begins to rake the pot C speaks up and says, "What about me? Don't I get to decide what I want to do?" Everyone stops. He was between the two players arguing over the action and player D never saw him. C thinks for a min then decides to call. Player D realizes that now the pot is so huge that he is nearly forced to call, but because as player A pointed out "Verbal Actions are binding" D submits. Player C has Ace high and wins a huge pot because player A was bluffing.

What do you guys think? Should player D have been able to get his cards back. Yes I know verbal actions are binding but in this case, it was out of turn.

Player C said he was confused because he heard the first player make the comment and didn't know what to do and thought that whole situation should pan out before he acted. Now I know this guy and he probably was honestly confused by the whole situation, he plays cards maybe every other month, usually at this cabin.

So the same thing happens last Thursday with aa different situation but the same two guys end up arguing about the bet.

So my questions are:

1. How do you hand the comment "I'll put you all in"
A. Let the other player count his chips so the first player can make the bet?
B. Just make the first player move all in regardless of the number of players left to act?

2. Should player D have had the chance to get his cards back- pending they weren't already in the muck?

I look forward to your replies!!

Thanks!

Captn

[TheMightyJim2k]

so confused.....who's on first?

[2_hotty]

When someone says "I'll put you all in" they are betting the amount of the other persons stack. Provided it's a legal bet. Make the second person count it, and continue on.

If they were going to push their stack in, they would say "I'm all in". As far as I'm concerned, there is a distinct difference between the two, and I would NEVER make a player stating "I'll put you all in" put all of his stack in. (provided he has the other guy covered, of course)


As far as the out of turn play, it was player D's fault for playing out of turn and folding. He does not get his cards back. He should pay better attention next time.

The "I'll put you all in" bet was a good bet as far as I'm concerned, and the player that was out of the hand that spoke up to cause all this crap should STFU when not in the hand.

At least, that's how I would handle all this at my game.

[jojobinks]

So my questions are:

1. How do you hand the comment "I'll put you all in"

you can bet as much as you like. if you want to bet the amount of D's stack, that seems fair.

A. Let the other player count his chips so the first player can make the bet?

sure. if he wants to know how many chips D has, he can ask for a count.

B. Just make the first player move all in regardless of the number of players left to act?

how does that make sense? no no no.

2. Should player D have had the chance to get his cards back- pending they weren't already in the muck?

no sir.

[sawmillthug]

i too dont like the put you all in declaration. Not sure how to handle it since no amount was mentioned. I would say that he should have to bet however much the largest stack still to act has. so if player C had more chips than you, he would have to bet enough to cover that player since he said what he said. Even though he was looking at you that doesnt matter.

On a personal note, i was in a 16 player tourney where a guy said that a lot. He was getting floored by the deck. A short stack went all in and the luckbox called, i too called, leaving me about what i had just bet. after the flop he says his famous line, i put you all in. I ask why? we are 5 handed and this pays 2 spots. He smarts off, just to get it over with right now, your done he says. i insta call with a set and i said, whos done? Long story short, when we go heads up for it all, i used his line on him. After the flop i said, lets see, how should i put this, oh yeah.....I put you all in. He looked me straight in the eyes knowing i was goating him..

sorry for the banter, i just really hate when people use that line.

[TheMightyJim2k]

reread and despite its confusion I guess I figured it out.

D acted out of turn and folded, but his hand is gone and he can't get it back period. He also should get a warning for acting out of turn.

1. the comment means that he is betting the size of a certain players stack. However this player should probably be warned that this is not the correct way to say this, and you should make some house rule where he needs to declare the size of his bet if it is not an "all-in" from him. (I don't really understand your A or B, but basically if someone wants to call they just need to find out the stack size of D and that is the bet amount).


2. no but I covered this already.

[beekeeper]

It's funny you mention this because this came up at our home game last week. Usually in our game (14 players) folks only say "All in" or they ask "How much do you have left?" But last week someone said "I'll put you all in," and his wife (who was irritated with him because he sucked out on her) told him "Just say you're all in." That struck up a friendly debate on whether people should say "all in" or the other.

In your game, I'm curious why no one seemed to know the other guy was still in. Were his cards visible? It seems like neither you nor the raiser knew this guy was still in the hand. If this is more of a friendly game, I think you should have been allowed to act in turn, and the original raiser should have clarified who he was putting all in. If this is not a friendly home game, but a more competitive thing, I think it was right to muck your cards. In the larger tournaments I've played in, if you act out of turn, your cards are automatically dead. But if the other guy was somehow hiding his cards, that changes things.

[Harlequin011]

1. How do you hand the comment "I'll put you all in"
A. Let the other player count his chips so the first player can make the bet?
B. Just make the first player move all in regardless of the number of players left to act?

2. Should player D have had the chance to get his cards back- pending they weren't already in the muck?

Woof, this is tough one...

1. The all in comment needs clarification. Have player A say exactly who he is talking to. It's like muttering a bet. Was that 15 or 50? It's not wrong to have someone repeat what they said.

A. Player D, should count his money once thats determined. The player that said he should have just gone all in, is all wrong. He had no intention of putting himself in jeopardy, just player D.

B. His bet wasn't "All-in" if he had Player D covered, then he is not all in.

2. Follow the house rules. Are verbal and out of turn actions binding in your home game? No hard and fast rules? Base your decision on weather you have enforced them before.

[tator2k]

As long as Player D still has cards(NOT MUCKED), his verbal action can not be counted due to out of turn. 'I believe' this will hold true for most Card Rooms and Casinos.

Now the difference would be if you phyically acted out of turn and pushed your stack in, before Player C acted. In a Casino your chips would still stay in play regardless to Player C's actions. In a House Game it's up to TD and the house rules as to whether or not you're committed.

[tmpa2001]

Originally Posted by Harlequin011

2. Should player D have had the chance to get his cards back- pending they weren't already in the muck?

Woof, this is tough one...

I think if C folds then D's fold is binding.

But if C calls it is a different story...
So I think in this case (assuming D's cards arent in the muck) they play.