[PFunk]

Cash Game:

On the river, Player A bets into Player B who thinks for a few moments then makes the hesitant call. Player A immediately mucks his hand when it is called in an obvious bluff attempt. Is Player B now required to show his hand at all to scoop the pot? Or can he simply muck it as well and take the pot?

What about in tournament play.....is there a difference between the same scenario?


P.

[the3rd]

Originally Posted by PFunk

Cash Game:

On the river, Player A bets into Player B who thinks for a few moments then makes the hesitant call. Player A immediately mucks his hand when it is called in an obvious bluff attempt. Is Player B now required to show his hand at all to scoop the pot? Or can he simply muck it as well and take the pot?

What about in tournament play.....is there a difference between the same scenario?


P.

Only player A, since he initiated the last betting action would be required to show his hand to win the pot. Since he mucked, it is just like any fold to a bet.

[PFunk]

Thanks...Same thing in a tournament?

I know my local (free poker) league requires you to show both cards to win a pot, and I am pretty sure even in this mucked hand scenario (has never come up though), even though their rules also say any hand that is mucked is automatically considered dead, so again, not really sure.

Anyone know about a major poker tournament and what the ruling might be?

[99%evil]

I think a rule should be instated that says, if a player missreads his hand and the opponent that discovers the missread is allowed to take all their money back...ok Matthew?

Grumble grumble....playong PLO, I'm holding 8,3,2,x double suited. Flop comes 8,3,2 rainbow, I bet Matthew calls, turn comes, 7, I bet, he calls, river comes 10, I bet he calls...I show my 8's and 3's he shows his 3's and 2's and concedes the hand...I notice his other 2 cards are 9,J...I roll my eyes...um, you win. It actually happened more than once, make sure you show all your cards in Omaha, another hand a guy is playing for a flush or something, misses on the end, arrowood scoops the pot with 2 pair and the loser throws his cards down, face up...I'm looking at them and say..."um, you have a straight"....bad for arrowood...as he loses the $30 pot.

[Quads]

Originally Posted by PFunk

Cash Game:

On the river, Player A bets into Player B who thinks for a few moments then makes the hesitant call. Player A immediately mucks his hand when it is called in an obvious bluff attempt. Is Player B now required to show his hand at all to scoop the pot? Or can he simply muck it as well and take the pot?

What about in tournament play.....is there a difference between the same scenario?


P.

No. If the bettor ("A") is making a move on the pot, gets called and instamucks, player B doesn't have to show to take the pot. Since player A mucked, player B has the only live hand. If the hand isn't mucked by player "A" the dealer needs to see something to award the pot, as there are still two live hands.

In a tourney, to prevent against collucion, the dealer is more likely to ask to see a winning hand. But again, if the player mucks his cards, he can't get the pot sent to him in any event, so player B who called hiim, again would have the pot sent to him.

[PatoLanda]

Hi:

I think there's no need to show your cards because when somebody mucks their cards this are dead.

[the3rd]

Originally Posted by PFunk

Thanks...Same thing in a tournament?

I know my local (free poker) league requires you to show both cards to win a pot, and I am pretty sure even in this mucked hand scenario (has never come up though), even though their rules also say any hand that is mucked is automatically considered dead, so again, not really sure.

Anyone know about a major poker tournament and what the ruling might be?

You have to show both card if contesting a pot, meaning 2 or more live hands are still in play even if you only need one to beat the other players' holdings.

In a tourney, to prevent against collucion, the dealer is more likely to ask to see a winning hand.

Probably true. Tounaments are getting even shadier, hence the "no checking the absolute nuts on the river rule" at WSOP circuit events.

[i run 8s]

no show, no pot.
8's

Originally Posted by PFunk

Cash Game:

On the river, Player A bets into Player B who thinks for a few moments then makes the hesitant call. Player A immediately mucks his hand when it is called in an obvious bluff attempt. Is Player B now required to show his hand at all to scoop the pot? Or can he simply muck it as well and take the pot?

What about in tournament play.....is there a difference between the same scenario?


P.

[99%evil]

If player A mucks his cards they're dead. Regardless whether player B shows or not is irrelevant, his cards were the last live cards in play. At least that's how I think it should be. He could show his cards and have a worse hand than player A, but A's cards are dead, there's no grabbing them out of the muck at this point. If Player A is bluffing and throws his cards face up on the table, then that might be another story, you can definitely see his cards...but if they hit the muck, I guess they should be dead...but what if the player missread his hand?...hmmm, what if it's omaha, and you don't realize you've won and throw your cards face up...the second example I stated above, this is what happened, the player threw his cards face up onto the muck...though the table didn't have a very well defined "muck" area. 1/2 the table had cards on them...there's no dealer, the players are dealing....hmmm, I wonder if the loser had the right to argue the loss.?...

[PFunk]

As Quads mentioned in an attempt to prevent collusion "the dealer is more likely to ask to see a winning hand".

So, I am to assume that the dealer might ask to see a winning hand in this situation, at which point the player can either show his hand, or muck it, and still drag the pot?

Obviously this came up as a debatable point in a home tournament we were having, so sorry to drive home this simple little thing, but I'd really like to get a definitive ruling on this and understand it.

I remember seeing the Full Tilt live episode over a year ago (first one they did I believe) and Cloney was in a hand with someone and this same thing popped up. She called someones river bluff who immediately mucked their hand, the dealer then (what seemed to be) motioned/asked to see Clonie's hand, which she showed face up immediately and then dragged the pot.

I guess this was just her obliging the situation, and she could of mucked her hand immediately, and still scooped the pot.

Seems wierd, I would imagine they would require a hand to be shown to take a pot down in a showdown situation, but I guess that is not a rule.