My pot problem (not the herb). Discuss My pot problem (not the herb), on ChipTalk.net the place to go for your Poker chips and gambling tips. Read it in Home Poker Rules.
We're short handed (4 people) towards the end of the night at the homegame playing .25/.50 pot limit. Rotating deal and I'm the button. The flop comes out Q high and I'm holding J-10o with an open end straight draw. One player in with me who makes a small bet on flop and turn. I make my straight on the river and call a small bet by player 2. I turn over my cards face up and announce "Straight". Player 2 turns over his cards face up and announces "Queens".
I think that I've won the pot so I begin raking up the board and pull in my cards along with his. I then push these cards along with the rest of the deck to the next player then turn my attention to raking the pot. I realize that player 2 was raking the pot. I asked why he was raking the pot. He said he thought he won. I told him I had a straight. He continues stacking the chips. Player to my left says he heard me announce straight, Player 2 says he thought I said "busted straight". Player to my right (his house) says he wasn't paying attention and that since the cards were mucked it's player 2's pot.
Question? The mucked cards and board were still face up in the muck with the rest of deck face down. Player 2 knew his cards as did I. There was a question as to wether there was a possible straight even on the board. Would you attempt to recreate the board and see if I won.
I didn't complain too loud as it was apparent that player 2 assumed he had won and didn't hear me, plus the pot size was a question now since he continued to stack. The House said the hand was dead and didn't was to tick anyone off and the pot wasn't huge. But with a bigger pot, an unscrupulous player could lay down a worse hand then rake the pot as the cards are mucked if the winner took too much time. This hasn't been an issue in the past, dont know if it will again. I'm thinking that the "cards are mucked" is a blanket statement that people use too much in the homegame. Lets atleast make an effort.
Cards speak, verbal declaration of a hand in not binding. The boards and hands were reconstructable. It's your pot. That way someone could say flush with crap and you muck your straight.
On your side - always protect your cards until you see you've lost.
I wouldn't play with someone who rakes a pot and keeps it when the cards weren't examined. Sorry to say, but you need to find a new game.
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The only thing I know to advise is make sure you have your hand in plain view and rake the chips in before you muck. Once cards get mucked and chips are raked there is not much you can do and it becomes someone else's tough decision. In this case I think someone should have ruled who won the pot based on the cards that were seen turned over and should have tried to get the pot right before dragging it to you.
I would defend my pot,
if no one remembers then sort out the muck and show your winning hand.
Our number one rule is 'cards speak' you can flip over ace high and say 'Royal' and vice-a-versa but the bottom line is what you show, not what you say.
It should be a spoken/written rule at that home game that no cards will be mucked until the winner has been clearly established. At that point, and no time before, will the pot be raked towards anyone!
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No one can MAKE anyone do ANYTHING. All we can ever do is make it easier or harder for people to make certain choices!
I usually don't have a problem in this game with anything like this. We're all friends and blow ups happen but usually resolve themselves. I hold some blame in this because when you declare a hand most people hear/understand your call and respect that (no unknowns/cheaters at this game). Bogus declares are very uncommon. The player who raked the pot blew up last month after losing several pots and busted out (by me) shortly after the whole ordeal this month. Likely he was steaming from his play this month and last, all this after several good months in the past.
The problem lies in trying to balance speeding up the game and getting the hands right. I was running under the assumption that by showing my hand and declaring the straight that this was enough w/o pushing up my straight cards with the flop like on TV. I then raked in the board before raking in the pot so the next dealer could get the deal going.
The house calling the the cards were mucked and sticking to his ruling didn't tick me off as much as my opponent never stopping to stack "his" chips when a problem arose. I got the last laugh at the end of the night and think I gained info on his temperament.
Several errors compounded into a lession to me about protecting my pots.
If you mucked your hand and no-one else saw it then you lost... You should have waited until at least one other person saw the hand before you threw it in the muck. A mucked hand is a lost hand...
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