ok, so what is the ruling here......

TrivialPiper · #1 (**permalink**) 12-15-2006, 06:55 PM

I'm playing in an 18 person home game tourney last night with two other friends of mine. We don't know the host, we were invited through a friend of a friend, etc...I don't remember the exact cards so here is the general situation....blinds are posted, action moves around the table, there are two guys left for the flop. Flop comes up something like Q 10 J. Player one goes all in, player 2 calls. Player two flips over his cards to show two pair (Q 10 I think). Player one shows his cards, a straight draw, he has A 9 (I think). He sees that he is way behind in the hand, flips his cards towards player 2 face down and says "you got me, take it". Dealer then reminds him that there are two more cards to come. He deals them and the king comes up on the river to give player 1 his straight. Now player 2 says that player 1 mucked his hand and surrendered the pot so the hand is his. Others at the table say that, since player 1 was all in there was no more action to be done so he couldn't have folded. Player 2, finally and graciously, relented and let player 1 have the pot. Player 1 kept saying that he wasn't really folding his hand. It wasn't my game so I didn't give my 2 cents, but if player 1 wasn't a friend of mine and it's my house, I would have said he mucked his hand and lost the pot.

What is the official ruling?

Slim7 · #2 (**permalink**) 12-15-2006, 08:08 PM

In my opinion..this is a dealer error. When the player conceded and threw his cards in face down the hand should have been over right there since he mucked his hand. Not sure if this is official..but it would have been the rule if it were my house.

JHickle · #3 (**permalink**) 12-15-2006, 08:22 PM

In a ALL IN situation, cards call themselves so you cannot conced until all community cards are reveled.

drake · #4 (**permalink**) 12-15-2006, 08:39 PM

Most tourney's will not call this a muck. If the player showed his cards, The dealer usually turns the players cards face up and deals the turn and river and awards the pot.

Drake

Guma · #5 (**permalink**) 12-15-2006, 09:04 PM

I don't know the official ruling... But I would be inclined to say that both players are all-in and there is no more action. The board must be dealt out and the cards speak. Player one can not concede, and is dumbarse for doing so!

Harlequin011 · #6 (**permalink**) 12-15-2006, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guma

I don't know the official ruling... But I would be inclined to say that both players are all-in and there is no more action. The board must be dealt out and the cards speak. Player one can not concede, and is dumbarse for doing so!

Unless it's a cash game I agree with this. There is no responsiblity to show in a cash game and the players can still fold at any time.

OnTheButton · #7 (**permalink**) 12-15-2006, 09:27 PM

One of the advantages of a tournament all-in bet is that you are guaranteed to see all 5 community cards, and will get to see you opponents cards as well.

You can't muck an all-in prior to seeing all cards in this scenario.

4ceps · #8 (**permalink**) 12-16-2006, 02:55 AM

what about this scenario (which was discussed elsewhere):

in a rebuy tourney, a shortstacked player, just before the end of the rebuy period, goes all in.

when the opponent calls, the all-in player immediately throws his hand into the muck in such a way that it is not retrievable.

this is done for the purpose of rebuying (since you had to be eliminated in order to rebuy).

would this be a legitimate, albeit unorthodox, fold?

billsrcursed · #9 (**permalink**) 12-16-2006, 03:05 AM

It seems to me that in both of these cases (questions) a new dealer is in order. When there is an "all-in" situation, the action is complete and the dealer SHOULD collect the hold cards and place them in the middle of the table. No player should have physical access to the cards, meaning they cannot act, or muck. Even in a rebuy situation, once you're all in, the dealer should retrieve the cards and place them in the center of the table. If this isn't a house rule in your games, you should incorporate it.

jojobinks · #10 (**permalink**) 12-16-2006, 05:56 AM

i don't agree that there's any mandate to see all 5, if indeed the guy mucks. if either of his cards hit the muck then it's mucked, and thats that. if he said "i muck" or "i fold", i'd treat it the same. i mean, certainly y'all don't advocate fishing a hand out of the muck, right?

this is grey, and i'd expect that a judgement call be made. i would NOT expect the dealer or anyone else to tell the guy not to fold (one player per hand), and don't tolerate that at my games (which don't really exist anymore (coincidence?

))