[shadesofgrey]

Home game, played there +15 years, ~10 regulars, 30-max.... I have been friends with the hosts son for +15 years & have played poker there since $.05/$.10 days. I am close enough with the house that i let them use my pharaohs.

its now $1/2 NL HE or Tournies.

For $1/2 buy-ins are $60-$200 max (normally everyone buys-in @ $100). unlimited rebuys, rebuys after a few rounds can max equal 75% of the largest stack or $200.

When people lose their entire stack they either: 0) leave 1) buy back in with their own cash 2) borrow chips from another person at the table 3) borrow money from a player and use that to buy chips.

I'm okay with the above 4, if the house is okay, if the table is okay.

Here is where I "think" this is getting tricky.....
- I've been watching the interactions of one particular person who will do the following:
1. loan a player $100 in chips (or cash)
2. if the loanee wins a pot, the lender asks for half back

In effect, what he has done is given the person $100 to win say $30, then asks the person for at least $50 back. Net effect: the person borrowing the money now can only double up on $80 vs. $130.

Its a bit nit picky, except the person doing it, is very very sharp. He knows how to play cards, basically paying his rent with it..... I think he knows what he is doing.

His style of play is specific against roughly $100 stacks. He has enough money in his pocket & usually on the table to play the stack and not so much the person/cards. By lending money then asking for half back, he is making it harder for people borrowing the money from him to make it back off him & easier for himself to push stacks around.

i think the action is fairly deliberate, but not illegal by house rules(??)

I've pointed it out to two people (neither of which were the host) & they agree but dont know what to do.....

IF THAT MADE SENSE

What do you think of this? It definately gives him an advatange over an individual borrowing money and playing cards against him.

[Strange]

Isn't this just a form of 'going south'.

The borrower is increasing their stack by buying chips then removing some of them from the table (to pay back the lender).

It should be pretty simple. Don't allow people to go south. They need to leave altogether, or keep their chips in play to the end.

I would have assumed that this is 'normal' for NL games.

Home games are tricky though. All kinds of things happen that are not 'normal' but have become habit. Difficult to change, but certainly worth trying.

[shadesofgrey]

Originally Posted by Strange

Isn't this just a form of 'going south'.

The borrower is increasing their stack by buying chips then removing some of them from the table (to pay back the lender).

It should be pretty simple. Don't allow people to go south. They need to leave altogether, or keep their chips in play to the end.

I would have assumed that this is 'normal' for NL games.

Home games are tricky though. All kinds of things happen that are not 'normal' but have become habit. Difficult to change, but certainly worth trying.

The money is left on the table. its all still in play...

its the fact that the lender "immediately" wants the chips back --- like he is lining the dude up / mins his risk against the loanee.. & at the same time allows him to throw a bigger stack around and lean.

i guess what bothers me is that he "randomly" selects between hands when he wants to collect from people at the table. he definately does it to his advantage.

Example: X is loaned $100, wins $30... hands later... X gets asked for $50 of $100 by UTG loaner, X BB now has $80 ($50 of which is loaned) , X can only bump his profit by +$30 dollar increments.... loaner UTG bets $20... now X does/doesnt call $18 more of $78 (leaving X with $10 profit + $50 owed)...... flop.... UTG bets $50.....

if not this hand, all hands. he just leans, and if someone owes, they bleed a $100 each time to a $$ death....

[Strange]

OK, so this is where one player is borrowing chips from another rather than borrowing money, right?

In NL games, you shouldn't allow players to use chips from other player's stacks. It affects the game even when it's voluntary. When you are forcing someone else to go short stacked, it's just plain wrong.

[shadesofgrey]

Originally Posted by Strange

OK, so this is where one player is borrowing chips from another rather than borrowing money, right?

In NL games, you shouldn't allow players to use chips from other player's stacks. It affects the game even when it's voluntary. When you are forcing someone else to go short stacked, it's just plain wrong.

"most" of the time borrowed cash is put into play.

some times people pay off in chips,

the game aspect, its all cool. i'm just trying to fine tune some rules.

its the way the shark lends his money at $100 a time and bets the chimp right out of his chair

[hod]

Don't think I'd be allowing that at our cash games, and like you say, especially as it looks like he knows exactly what he's doing.

At our games players often pay each other for beer/pizza etc with the odd £5 in chips, but that is more akin to the amounts you may tip in a casino and has a negligible effect on chip stacks.

[i run 8s]

The easiest thing to do is have a house rule that states, "Chips in play may not be transfered to any other player". That way any funds borrowed, or repayed is done outside of the game. I've often wondered why people show up to play cash games with minimal cash, time after time.

[pkf655]

I agree that something is going on here, not really sure, but my take would be a new house rule you can only take your money off the table to pay back loans when you are leaving. What would be the sense of loaning out $100 or whatever when you know you have to give $50 back? Then just loan out $50 and keep it that way.

[bigjohn]

Money should be taken out of pocket and used to purchase chips from the house. That way additional money is in play for everyone to have a chance at. By sliding chips over to another person there is no additional money to be won at the table...

[Colquhoun]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Money should be taken out of pocket and used to purchase chips from the house. That way additional money is in play for everyone to have a chance at. By sliding chips over to another person there is no additional money to be won at the table...

Bingo. This is the BIGGEST issue here, IMHO.