[idpaman]

When two player check on the river. Do both players have to show there cards to the table or does the person behind the dealer have to show and the next player can muck if he is beat. What is the ruling on this.
Thanks,
idpaman

[MSPatton]

Originally Posted by idpaman

When two player check on the river. Do both players have to show there cards to the table or does the person behind the dealer have to show and the next player can muck if he is beat. What is the ruling on this.
Thanks,
idpaman

You only have to show your cards if you are "All In" or want to claim all or part of the pot.

[jldecarlo]

The last to bet or the first to check is required to show their cards first.

Obviously, if you don't show your cards (both of them in hold'em), you can't win. In general, if the second to check shows a hand that beats yours before you do, you may muck anyway, even though you were supposed to show your cards first.

Also, the strict rules say that if you are in a showdown and ANY player at the table requests, you must show your cards. It is considered poor form to do this is most card rooms.

L

[dad604]

Your 2nd option is the right one. If the river is checked then cards are opened from the dealer's left regardless of the betting in the previous round.

[_GUN_]

Originally Posted by jldecarlo

Also, the strict rules say that if you are in a showdown and ANY player at the table requests, you must show your cards. It is considered poor form to do this is most card rooms.

So if a showdown occurs, where one refuses to show, you can still ask for their cards and be obliged? It's considered bad etiquette, but it's still allowed in some rooms?

[Brent]

Originally Posted by _GUN_

So if a showdown occurs, where one refuses to show, you can still ask for their cards and be obliged? It's considered bad etiquette, but it's still allowed in some rooms?

Yeah, the thing is you should only do this when you suspect cheating or collusion. I believe this is why the rule exists.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by _GUN_

So if a showdown occurs, where one refuses to show, you can still ask for their cards and be obliged? It's considered bad etiquette, but it's still allowed in some rooms?

It's allowed, yes. Once in a great while I'll see a decent floorperson at Foxwoods ask if there's suspicision of collusion and not allow it. But most dealers will just show the hand if asked.

Personally, if you really need to ask to see a hand for "information" then you're not very observant.

At a showdown, if you think you have the winning hand, just show your hand even if the other person is supposed to show first. No need to slow down the game by semi-grandstanding.

[bolgenmod]

There have been a billion posts (only a slight exaggeration) about this in 2+2 B&M about people not showing hands, others wanting to see hands (IWTSTH -- I want to see that hand -- is the abbreviation usually used), etc. It also comes up all the time in the 2+2 home game forum.

At most casinos, you have the right to see the hand at showdown. Some casinos have instituted the rule Space mentions: they will actually ask you to say why you suspect collusion, and if you don't suspect collusion, you can't see the hand. At other casinos you will be shown the hand if you ask. The original intent of the IWTSTH rule was to prevent collusion, but since so many players now are using it for information (and many players get really annoyed at the request), some casinos have added that rule.

But the basic thing is this: in most casinos, IWTSTH is considered a nitish and/or a d!ckish request. It can be seen as implying cheating of some sort, so you basically don't want to do it when up against a good player. And when against a bad player, you don't want to tap on the glass after all.

Home games are, of course, different: there it depends on the game and the players. I've shown my hand at a player's request, but I also mentioned that the request implies that I am cheating, which meant that that was the last time anyone asked to see anyone else's hand. (They think I am a total poker geek, but they also know I know the rules better than they do.)

In almost all cases, I just table and declare my hand no matter who bet first when, because I want to get on with the game. At the casino, I will wait for the aggressor or the earlier position player, but only if I really think I am beaten and only for a few seconds. (I once tabled and declared "busted flush" when in early position on a checked river -- my opponent then complained "she doesn't have the flush"! Practically the whole table chorused: "she said BUSTED flush.") If someone shows a better hand, I muck. And if they ask to see my hand, I take note of that player: they are usually not as good as they think they are.

If you want rules, the rule is as others stated: earliest position (or last aggressor in some casinos) shows first on a checked river. And yes, you can ask to see the other person's hand. But it is at least considered bad form and can be seen to imply something worse. If everyone would just go ahead and just table their hands....

[Matthew]

I got in a hand a few weeks ago - I had AJ soooooted. Axx flop - I bet the flop got called (I put him on an A - no flushes or straights possible). Turn rag - check-check - River rag - check-check. I turned over AJ and he looked at his cards - now I think I got him out kicked. I didn't make a move for the pot - I came real close though. He f^%$ing slow rolls AQ. He normally wouldn't be a prick like this, but it was an unusually late night and he drank more than normal and he hasn't done it again.

Moral of the story - If you're in a show down turn your cards over - don't slow roll, don't grandstand, don't be an ass.