messing up the turn & river

shadesofgrey · #1 (**permalink**) 06-09-2006, 01:40 AM

Here the scene: home tourny, ~20 players, 2 tables, rebuys through 3 levels.

we are at level 2, I have a medium low stack, i am BB and get dealt TT (both black). everyone folds to minus 2 positions next to SB (big stack), who limps, I raise 3X BB, SB calls all others fold. Board comes 234 rainbow. SB bets about the pot, calling would leave me about 10 chips, so I move all in figuring I can rebuy worst case. SB calls, we turn over our cards and to no surprise the SB has the A5 straight. My cards are just above the flop and are definately face up. at this point its TT vs A-5 straight... table is ahahha. "you're going straight to dcik(sp?) city"...lmao - i was... and i knew it. i stood up to get my rebuy & lost track of my 2 black tens.

Here is where it gets wierd. i put my cards UP - above the flop - about 10" from my hand..... The dealer starts to muck the table figuring I am drawing dead, and the other people at the table chime "whoa whoa" there are 2 more cards. so the dealer burns/turns and its a black ten.... Everyone at the table looks funny at the card and says "dude thats your ten" - it isnt really clear how my ten ended up one card underneath the top card.... So, the table decides to reburn and turn - turn is an A. burn/turn river is a 5. chop pot each playing a straight A through 5 on the board.

At this point the SB goes ballistic, saying that they are sure that the 5 or A would not have come if MY ten hadnt been put back in the deck. My arguement was that my cards were live since I turned them over. I dont know why or how they ended up on the deck, but everyone there saw my tens. other than that i keep my mouth closed and let the table decide.

long story short, the table decided that we split the pot (playing the board) despite the SB protest. It actually ended well with her and I chopping 1st and 3rd (i was third, but not buy much) it was definately a wierd situation.

What the heck would anyone else on here done? is it just a miss deal and chop pot @ the turn? or do you actually keep turning over cards... what happens when they flop your cards on the board!!??!! I got lucky the straight hit the board, but what if I hadnt - what should be done if the dealer mucks cards that are face up and live, then ends up dealing one of them?

Brewster · #2 (**permalink**) 06-09-2006, 09:48 AM

I wouldn't get up from the table until the river has been dealt and all possibilities have been analyzed. If I lost, I would get the rebuy ready while the deck is being shuffled.

Matthew · #3 (**permalink**) 06-09-2006, 10:05 AM

Most logically, the burn card for the turn was your first T. The dealer probably mucked your hand to the top of the deck.

If the other mucked hands are still seperate. A solution would be to find your tens and reshuffle the deck, and continue the hand.

If the mucked cards were mixed in, the hand is dead but since they were face up and you made the bet and he called everyone should get their chips back. SB-2 gets their limp back, you and SB split. Which is pretty much what happened anyway. The key here is - you made the bet he called you - you're in the hand no matter what.

Story: Local restaurant runs a "tournament" but it's a timed cash game. $60 buy in gets you $50 in chips. Blinds are 1/2 for 30 minutes then 2/4 for 30 minutes - at the end of the hour you cash out what you got. I got AA on the button - blinds 1/2 - raise to 8 total. BB calls all others fold. Flop A85 rainbow. BB bets 10 I raise to 25, he goes all in - I call. He says 2 pair thinking he has A8 - he actually has A9. he throws his chair, ranting and raving like a punk and walks to the other side of the room. Turn = 6 River =7. His buds are calling him back - "Yo Angelo, yous won" I'm busted out. Now he's the greatest player in the world. I wish he mucked his cards. Moral I guess - don't leave the table until the river is dealt.

VARoadstter · #4 (**permalink**) 06-09-2006, 10:05 AM

Wow, wild story! Sounds like total chaos. The dealer has absolutely no business not dealing out all the cards for just the reason that you stated in your post. Sometimes really strange things happen so it's best to just finish the deal. Protecting your hand isn't even an issue here since the deal hadn't been finished (if it had and you left your cards unprotected, then if the dealer mucked your hand you'd be SOL).

I would have probably asked for a ruling on declaring the hand dead once the dealer flipped over one of your cards. I'm sure your opponent would have gone nuts but it's not your fault that it happened and I can't think of a way to resolve it since your cards had been added to the stub. It's got to be a dead hand.

Anyone else?

compost kid · #5 (**permalink**) 06-09-2006, 10:17 AM

Since it is strictly dealer error here, the only solution is to find your two tens, reshuffle the deck , and deal the turn and river. Do not re-shuffle cards from the muck if you are certain which these are.

Simply splitting the pot is extremely unfair to the person with the straight, while forcing you to fold your pocket 10's hand is unfair to you since, as we see, you definitely have outs.

My first online tournament, I was short stacked, flopped the nut flush, and went all-in. Was called by pocket kings, who hit runner-runner full house.... it happens.

shadesofgrey · #6 (**permalink**) 06-10-2006, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brewster

I wouldn't get up from the table until the river has been dealt and all possibilities have been analyzed. If I lost, I would get the rebuy ready while the deck is being shuffled.

All i did was stand up to get my wallet out. I figured i was rebuying. i didnt leave the room or anything.

I think VAR is right, the hand is dead if players cards somehow get dealt. luckily it was a tourny and not a cash game.

either way it was a wierd one for me - 15-years of this game and that has never happened to me before. I've had misdeals and dealer errors, but never had my own cards come off the deck.

Thanks for the input guys!

Clonexx · #7 (**permalink**) 06-12-2006, 08:13 AM

VAR is right. If only your 2 10s were mixed in, then remove the 10s and reshuffle, then deal the turn and river.

If the entire tables mucked cards were mixed into the deck, then the hand is dead and everyone gets their chips back.

shadesofgrey · #8 (**permalink**) 06-12-2006, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clonexx

VAR is right. If only your 2 10s were mixed in, then remove the 10s and reshuffle, then deal the turn and river.

If the entire tables mucked cards were mixed into the deck, then the hand is dead and everyone gets their chips back.

they were all mixed up, the dealer had to sift through the mucked cards just to find my other ten.... Oh well, i just hope it never happens again. its definately a misdeal.