[OnTheButton]

Scenario: New player trying to learn, sitting in with the regulars yesterday before the Superbowl begins. Knows the basics of play, but not the "mechanics" of NLHE as far as the details of play.

He shuffles and deals everyone their hole cards.

I'm sitting on a: in the big blind...

There are no raises, many callers,(probably 6) and I check to see the flop.

The dealer burns a card, and shows a flop of:



Betting continues and when it reaches me, I raise to about 4x BB and still get 4 callers.

The pot is building up nicely.

The dealer puts down the turn card.



I've hit my Broadway straight, and raise again when betting comes around to me again, and I raise. I get re-raised by a previous caller, and that raise is called by a player acting before me.

The dealer goes to set down the river card and he drops a dead card (like a ) when we immediately realize he had not burned before the turn or the river... There is only one burn card sitting infront of the board.

Crap.

How would you handle this? The field is now down to 3 players, the pot is about $25-30 (25/50 cent blinds) and has already been "localized" to the middle of the table in a mound, the remaining players are already fondling their chips to resume the action, when we stop the hand cold.

I'd like to hear your opinions and I'll tell you what we did.

[circlencircle]

I would handle it one of two ways depending on what the rest of the table wanted. Call the whole thing dead and give everyone their chips back or let it roll as is and realize that it doesn’t matter because everyone who was in the hand chose to play and was playing to win/ expected to win based on the cards that were actually dealt... It’s really irrelevant at that point and the hand should be played as is if you ask me.

cnc

[krw17]

The 6s is a burn card as it can be corrected since you caught it before that round of betting. Burn it and put it to the side, flip another card as the river card. As for the Ace, since it has been dealt, even though incorrectly dealt, betting action has already taken place based on that card. You play it out.

[Strange]

If no-one spotted or objected to the turn when betting was made on it, then i'd leave that where it was.

Now that the mistake has been spotted, I'd tend to fix the immediate problem and push the 6 into the muck and flip the real river.

the danger is that you get accused of angle shooting:

'you probably spotted the mistake but didn't want to say anything because it helped you.' Or something similar.

I like the general rule of fixing what's just been spotted, but don't try to roll back the clock.

Edit : just like krw17 said

[jojobinks]

yah, what they say.

also, i don't recommend playing a straight draw aggressively in a 7 way pot and a flush draw on board. it essentially kills 25% of your outs.

[OnTheButton]

Originally Posted by jojobinks

yah, what they say.

also, i don't recommend playing a straight draw aggressively in a 7 way pot and a flush draw on board. it essentially kills 25% of your outs.

It was a pretty tight table with quite a few new players, just learining the progression of a live table game.

It was found out pretty early that they were throwing a lot of money away (part of the game was being played to help them learn) chasing bad hands to the river.

Reasonable raises were common to allow the newer players a better understanding of the "cost of chasing" weak hands in hopes improving their hands. (i.e. Calling to chase 3 card flushes, gutshot straight draws, hanging onto small pocket pairs too long, etc.)

The end result of this hand was that we reset the hand and returned the chips from a group recollection of the action, and moved the button to the next player for a new hand.

The bear for me was (but I was OK with it since it was a "learining" table for many players) that the two hands I was playing against were top 2 pair A's and K's and trip 3's.

It was no big deal, and everyone was OK with the decision, it was just the first time we've had this major of a misdeal caught after the action was rolling along heavily.

And NO ONE noticed the lack of a burn card before the turn.

[coyote]

The turn Ace stays, there has been betting action on it. Since the error was noticed right away on the river, before any action, I would make the 6 the burn card and flip the next card for the river.

I think I'm right on the turn, but I wonder if the "correct" action on the river is to shuffle the 6 into the remaining cards and burn and turn the river again.

The wrong action is to kill the hand and return all the money. Although in a friendly home game with a bunch of novices, there is certainly nothing wrong with it if noone objects.

If I was holding the nuts in a nice pot, I wouldn't have been interested in that solution.

[OnTheButton]

Originally Posted by coyote

The turn Ace stays, there has been betting action on it. Since the error was noticed right away on the river, before any action, I would make the 6 the burn card and flip the next card for the river.

I think I'm right on the turn, but I wonder if the "correct" action on the river is to shuffle the 6 into the remaining cards and burn and turn the river again.

I agree to this solution.

And if it should ever happen again, I think that it makes the most sense, and will be the one we will use.

Since the Ace had already gotten action, it should remain, but since the 6 had yet to get action, it should be burned and a new card turned before betting is resumed.

Thank you all for your thoughts on the subject.

[coyote]

Note though, that If there had only been one action on the turn Ace, say first person to act bets and then dealer notices he didn't burn before turning...

Then I think the Ace is supposed to become the burn and the next card is the turn card....

But I'm not really clear on that..... I thought Roberts rules were linked on this website somewhere but I can't find it.

[OnTheButton]

Originally Posted by coyote

Note though, that If there had only been one action on the turn Ace, say first person to act bets and then dealer notices he didn't burn before turning...

Then I think the Ace is supposed to become the burn and the next card is the turn card....

But I'm not really clear on that..... I thought Roberts rules were linked on this website somewhere but I can't find it.

For clarity, the entire round of betting was completed on the turn card.

It was when he slapped down the river card off the top of the deck, that we realized he had not burned for the river, OR the turn.

So it makes sense to keep the turn card betting action, but to burn the current river card, and deal a new river, since action had not yet begun on that street.