[snuix114]

Originally Posted by SingleMaltFan

correct me if i am wrong or misunderstanding this myself but...this may be where the confusion lies..

when you are at a casino (or home game)

limit games are listed by the minium bets and fixed raises (e.g. 2/4 $2 pre-flop/flop $4 turn /river) NOT listed by the blinds...which in this case would be 1/2, $2 is only the minimum bet for the first two rounds

no-limit games at the casino ARE listed by the blinds not by the minimum bets..so 1/2 limit would be SB=$1 BB=$2 therefore the minimum bet would be the blind. Raises must be at least the amount of any previous raise.

so this leads to my question/confusion...in NLHE say e.g.5/10...minimum bet is $10..since the BB is a "forced raise" from the SB (in this case $5 more) should't the first raise be allowed to be $5 (so raise from $10 to $15)??? or does it have to be double any previous raise???

hope i was of help, and hope you can now answer my question..

malt

The misunderstanding here is that the BB is not a "forced raise" it is actually a completed bet. The SB is a partial bet. Therefore the minimum bet/raise is the amount of the BB.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: Worded it poorly, hopefully makes more sense now

[BigKyle]

Consider the blinds to be bets made by those players before they see any cards. The small blind just so happens to have the privledge of only having to bet half the big blind (or whatever the sb is). However, his special treatment only lasts until the action returns to him, when he must either relinquish his cards or put in the full size of the bet.

[eguie921]

Originally Posted by Colquhoun

I posted a question about this a while back and got some interresting responses.
LINK

Read the link thanks for the assist. I like the way one poster put it, ring games are displayed by it's stakes and tournaments by it's blinds. That helps to remember.

Also, BigKyle's explanation "...the privledge of only having to bet half the big blind...his special treatment only lasts until the action returns to him..." helps to understand it better.

[jamby]

The confusion with blinds and betting in limit play only serves to make me stick to no-limit.

[SingleMaltFan]

Originally Posted by snuix114

The misunderstanding here is that the BB is not a "forced raise" it is actually a completed bet. The SB is a partial bet. Therefore the minimum bet/raise is the amount of the BB.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: Worded it poorly, hopefully makes more sense now

perfect explanation for me...

thanks..

malt

[Nugzy]

If you are playing a $1/$2 Limit Holdem game, the blinds for that game are going to be $.50/$1. Preflop, the raising will occur in multiples of $1. On the flop, the betting will be $1. On the turn and the river, the betting will be $2. I think thats right.

[R Deckard]

Originally Posted by eguie921

Read the link thanks for the assist. I like the way one poster put it, ring games are displayed by it's stakes and tournaments by it's blinds. That helps to remember.

Actually, Limit games are normally described by the stakes, and No Limit/Pot Limit games are described by the blinds. It doesn't matter if they are ring games or tournaments.

That thread in the link is misleading. If you read Colquhoun's last response, it looks like pokerroom.com has a very strange betting structure for its Limit tournaments, where only A SINGLE (!?) bet amount is allowed, instead of the usual two (small bet and big bet). This is apparently why the Limit tournament levels are described by the blinds sizes instead of the bet sizes (stakes).

Everywhere I have played, B&M and online (PP, Pstars, et. al.) a Limit game is ALWAYS described by the stakes, i.e. the small bet and the big bet, NOT the blinds. It does not matter if it is a ring game or a tournament game. Conversely, a No-Limit or Pot Limit game is described by the blind amounts, again irrespective of whether it is a ring or tournament game (although ring NL games sometimes are described by the buy-in amount as well).

Just to make this agonizingly clear for all (esp. any noobs or "As Seen on TV" NL-tournament Hold'em only folks out there), since there seems to be some mixing of terms in this and the referenced thread:

"Ring" vs. "Tournament" game: A ring game is also known as a cash game. You are playing directly for money, not for some prize. Your chips are your money and may be cashed-out whenever you decide to leave the game. In a tournament, your chips do not represent actual cash won, but are your "score" in a competition for a limited number of prizes. If you leave the game, your chips become worthless. Any betting structure (Limit, Pot Limit, No Limit) may be played as either a ring or tournament game.

"Limit", "Pot Limit", "No Limit": Refers to the betting structure. Any of these may be played as a ring game or as a tournament.

Standard Limit games are described by the amount of the small bet/big bet. The small blind is half the small bet, the big blind is the full small bet. Some games have more than two bet sizes, like Sunset Station's 3-6-9 game (3 pre-flop/flop, 6 turn, 9 river).

Pot Limit and No Limit games are described by the amount of the small blind/big blind. The big blind is the minimum bet.

[eguie921]

R Deckard, I actually meant to type "limit" instead of "ring" but you are right, by me putting "tournament" is incorrect and could be confusing to someone. I read back through the link and I see what you mean. It is misleading.

Thanks for the assist and the clear explanation.

[eguie921]

First, thanks again for everyone's comments in this thread. I'm clear now and understand that my confusion came from Limit games.

We are coming up on our monthly tourney and I want to make sure I have this minimum bet thing spelled out in our rules. Because, in a home tourney with the timid types that come out, mimum bets will occur even on 4th and 5th street. I need to make sure it is done right. So, let me phrase this question as specific as I can:

For a No Limit...Hold'em...Tournament...if the blinds are 5/10 (with no antes) where (link or book) can I find in writting where it will state what the min bets are for each round of betting?

I've been doing some searching but can not seem to find this in writting. I guess that since it's NL, no one expects a minimum bet to be placed on 4th or 5th but it does happen with certain players.

Sorry that this sounds so elementry but I have some elementry people that come out and if I don't spell it out in my house rules, I will definitly get the questions "shouldn't it be 20 on 4th and 5th?" I like to have somewhere I can validate my house rules and show where it's spelled out as well so that they can shut the f*** up.

Thanks

[snuix114]

Originally Posted by eguie921

First, thanks again for everyone's comments in this thread. I'm clear now and understand that my confusion came from Limit games.

We are coming up on our monthly tourney and I want to make sure I have this minimum bet thing spelled out in our rules. Because, in a home tourney with the timid types that come out, mimum bets will occur even on 4th and 5th street. I need to make sure it is done right. So, let me phrase this question as specific as I can:

For a No Limit...Hold'em...Tournament...if the blinds are 5/10 (with no antes) where (link or book) can I find in writting where it will state what the min bets are for each round of betting?

I've been doing some searching but can not seem to find this in writting. I guess that since it's NL, no one expects a minimum bet to be placed on 4th or 5th but it does happen with certain players.

Sorry that this sounds so elementry but I have some elementry people that come out and if I don't spell it out in my house rules, I will definitly get the questions "shouldn't it be 20 on 4th and 5th?" I like to have somewhere I can validate my house rules and show where it's spelled out as well so that they can shut the f*** up.

Thanks

Got to the "No Limit" section of this page:

http://chiptalk.net/index.php?ChipTa...=Roberts_Rules

It explains that the minimum bet/raise is the amount of the bring-in. If there is a raise then the new minimum raise is the amount of the raise. For example in a $1/$2 NL game the minimum bet is $2 and the minimum raise is $2 unless someone has alrady raised it. Let's say UTG raises to $5 now the minimum bet is $5 and the minimum raise is $3 (to $8 total) because UTG raised the BB by $3. And so on...