[hachkc]

Blinds of 100/200

UTG with 1k chips calls (has 800 left)
UTG+1 with 5k chips calls (has 4800 left)
MP with 250 chips goes all in by raising remaining 50
folds to UTG and UTG+1 who can only call or fold as 50 isn't a qualified raise.


Let's make some minor changes.

UTG with 2500 chips calls (has 2300 left)
UTG+1 with 5k chips calls (has 4800 left)
MP with 250 chips goes all in by raising remaining 50 (not qualified)
CO with 10k in chips raises 1720 to 2k (has 8k left) as he is acting against the posted BB.
UTG goes all-in with remaining 2300 chips by raising 500 chips (not qualified)
UTG+1 can now fold, call or raise because he hasn't acted against the CO raise yet.
If UTG+1 calls, CO can only call the UTG raise but cannot reraise. If UTG+1 makes a valid raise (at least 1720 more) after calling the 2300, the CO could
then reraise.

[Fins]

Originally Posted by hachkc

MP with 280 chips goes all in by raising remaining 50

This should be "MP with 250..."

[hachkc]

Originally Posted by Fins

This should be "MP with 250..."

Fixed in OP, thanks.

[cnw400]

This doesn't really resolve anything, but this is straight from the horses mouth in terms of Robert's rules.

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_maga...900&m_id=65570

[Somrakj]

it doesnt make sense you could only call if you are BB. Maybe in limit but even then... They principal behind NLHE is that you can "put all your chips in the pot at any time" This would go against that and doesnt make much sense at all.

[JustinHEMI04]

Well no one ever really said that you can put all of your chips in at any time. That is a TV catch phrase. It is correct that, if the person going all in cannot raise the minimum amount, that does not reopen action for anyone else to raise all in. There have been many examples but it is quite simple.

Lets say player in MP raises 3 times the big blind to 300. MP plus one calls. Button goes all in for 400. It is folded around back to MP who now DOES NOT have the right to reraise all in to get MP plus one out. Simply because the button did not meet the required minimum raise, therefore his action does not count as a raise and does not reopen the action for a reraise. MP and MP plus one can only call at this point.

Pretty simple and makes perfect sense. Hate to say it, but you cannot always put all of your chips in at any time in NLHE. There are still rules.

Justin

[Ramstone]

AFAIK, the only time you cant raise an all-in is when that all-in is in for less than a full raise (either 1.5 or less, or less than 1.5, im vague on this) against your call. In essense, you can't RE-raise. so if:

A call
B call
C all-in for less than 1.5x the call

A and B cannot reraise C, only call. If there are players D E F etc behind C, they can call or raise. and if that happens, A and B are of course free to call/raise players D E F.

[dad604]

Originally Posted by vrecksler

This may go against the grain but when I was at the casino playing in a NLHE tournament a similar situation occurred where a short stacked player moved all in with chips that were just barely over the BB. Another player called, then another moved all in to isolate and the tournament director said that he could not move all in like that. Since the original raiser could not meet the minimum raise, no successive raises are allowed.

It was a really odd ruling, so the player called and moved all in on the flop with his KK but there may be some official ruling for this kind of thing, as well as the one you describe, out there. In a home game though, the host usually makes the rules so whatever they decide is how you play it.

This is the correct ruling. The only player that still have the option to raise would be the BB. The SB's allin was not a raise as he could not even meet the BB or as in quote above the raise was not over 50% and would not be consider a raise. All the other players other than the BB had already call the bb and as the sb was not a raise, they can not raise any more.

Was that clear as mud!!!

[dad604]

How can it be a raise when he can't even cover the bb? the sb is allin just to call the bb. Don't forget that it is the sb, only the bb is left to act after him and the bb is the only person that can raise. He does not lose that option just becuz the sb is all in for less than the bb.

[danopoker]

Originally Posted by vrecksler

This may go against the grain but when I was at the casino playing in a NLHE tournament a similar situation occurred where a short stacked player moved all in with chips that were just barely over the BB. Another player called, then another moved all in to isolate and the tournament director said that he could not move all in like that. Since the original raiser could not meet the minimum raise, no successive raises are allowed.

It was a really odd ruling, so the player called and moved all in on the flop with his KK but there may be some official ruling for this kind of thing, as well as the one you describe, out there. In a home game though, the host usually makes the rules so whatever they decide is how you play it.

There isn't enough information here to determine if the ruling was right or not. If the player trying to isolate the short stack had not acted yet, then he is entitled to call or raise. If the player trying to isolate the short stack had already acted with a call, and the only raise after that was the short stack, then yes, he can only call.

The way I look at it is this -- a raise can do two things to the round of betting:

1) It increases the amount of money each player must put into the pot that betting round to continue playing (up to a person's entire stack)
2) It gives all other players still in the hand a chance to re-raise

When a player raises all-in and creates a raise of less than the minimum, then aspect #2 is ignored -- it is not considered a raise in the sense that it creates a new possiblity for re-raising.

Example -- NLHE tournament, four players to the flop. After the flop:

Player A bets $1000
Player B folds
Player C raises all-in $1200
Player D calls $1200

At this point Player A cannot raise. The choices are to fold, or call with an additional $200. The "raise" by Player C is only a raise in the sense of #1 above, but not in the sense of #2 because if is short of the minimum.

Note that some online poker clients do not enforce this rule and you can use it to your advantage when you have a short stack on your left and a monster in your hand!