[scott1453]

I just saw this on the Robert's Rules of Poker website... It seems like this quote answers my question and states that the player not involved was correct in pointing out the flush and Player 2 should have been awarded the pot... Again player 2 just stated "You got me" and threw his cards face up on the table...

"Anyone who sees an incorrect amount of chips put into the pot, or an error about to be made in awarding a pot, has an ethical obligation to point out the error."

edit: insane irish beat me to it...

Thanks for all your opinions and help guys... Hopefully this situation won't come up again...

[jojobinks]

yah, if he showed down, that's a different story.

[i run 8s]

One of the "BIGGEST" problems that you encounter on any board on any subject is people forget to say "IN MY OPINION" and some take everything they read to be the written rule.

2nd problem being, that we refer to the "DEALER" as being the final answer (at the table). Problem here is 99.9% of the issues that get discussed here do not have a dealer involved. They happem at a home game where people take turns passing out cards to the other players. Dealers are paid by a company to protect that companies interest.

The easiest thing to do is print out a set of roberts rules, read them, and then say wow I didn't know that.

[99%evil]

Originally Posted by i run 8s

Part of this is an argument for another day.


In this case, and 99.9% of all cases the cards speak louder then words.

NOW for the other day argument.

"If the cards hit the muck they are dead. "

That statement “MAY” be untrue. Evils opinion may be that they should be dead or maybe at his house games, his house rules state they are dead. Roberts rules of Poker has a totally different take on the matter. We paly by Roberts rules, unless house rules are different

I think I may have not given enough info, I guess I meant to say if the guy mucked his hand face down and someone looks at his cards (flips them over, I know your not supposed to peak at mucked cards, but I've seen folks that don't care about the rules dig for people's cards) that they should be dead.

In a casino, how does it work if you give up and throw your cards face up into the muck?

[insane_irish]

Originally Posted by 99%evil

I think I may have not given enough info, I guess I meant to say if the guy mucked his hand face down and someone looks at his cards (flips them over, I know your not supposed to peak at mucked cards, but I've seen folks that don't care about the rules dig for people's cards) that they should be dead.

In a casino, how does it work if you give up and throw your cards face up into the muck?

Ahh, in that case you are right, if you muck them face down unless the "winner" of the hand requests to see them they are dead. In this case Player 1 as the only other player in the hand at that point would have had to request to see them in order for them to be live.

Assuming the casino is followig Roberts Rules

DEAD HANDS

1. Your hand is declared dead if:

(a) You fold or announce that you are folding when facing a bet or a raise.



(b) You throw your hand away in a forward motion causing another player to act behind you (even if not facing a bet).

(c) In stud, when facing a bet, you pick your upcards off the table, turn your upcards facedown, or mix your upcards and downcards together.

(d) The hand does not contain the proper number of cards for that particular game (except at stud a hand missing the final card may be ruled live, and at lowball and draw high a hand with too few cards before the draw is live). [See Section 16 - "Explanations," discussion #4, for more information on the stud portion of this rule.]

(e) You act on a hand with a joker as a holecard in a game not using a joker. (A player who acts on a hand without looking at a card assumes the liability of finding an improper card, as given in Irregularities, rule #8.)

(f) You have the clock on you when facing a bet or raise and exceed the specified time limit.

2. Cards thrown into the muck may be ruled dead. However, a hand that is clearly identifiable may be retrieved and ruled live at management’s discretion if doing so is in the best interest of the game. We will make an extra effort to rule a hand retrievable if it was folded as a result of incorrect information given to the player.



3. Cards thrown into another player’s hand are dead, whether they are faceup or facedown.

A hand "mucked" face up can be easily identified and retrieved and thus "...may be retrieved and ruled live at the managements discretion..." I have seen happen both ways in casinos. It all depends on the floor person. Get a good one and it will be ruled live, get an a****** and they will rule it dead. Without fail everytime I have seen this happen in the casino, the table held a much higher opinion of the floor person/the casino when it was ruled live than they did when it was ruled dead, and that includes the individuals whose win and loss was determined by it.

[i run 8s]

Evil, I think, you will find in most casino's if the cards are face up, they are in play. Again, it's 100% different in the casino where you have a paid employee, who is running the game.

[Spaceman Spiff]

If the guy flipped his cards up, it doesn't matter what he "says", his cards speak. If he doesn't notice the flush, chances are someone will. At least that's the way it's worked in just about every game I've been involved in.

In a home game, I don't think the "dealer awards the pot" rule is really applicable. It's not so much being a busybody, but if someone at the table, involved in the hand or not, notices the pot going the wrong way, they should say something. Especially in a friendly home game, I personally wouldn't feel right taking a pot that wasn't mine.

[OnTheButton]

Cards flipped face up after the river bet called - winner.

Cards tossed face down after the river bet called - loser.

The cards always speak for themselves, IF they are shown, and all betting is completed.

[dad604]

Normally, I would say the flush wins, CARD SPEAKS, but as the player holding the flush told the other guy that it is his, I don't see what the agrument is all about.

[tikipirate]

Originally Posted by dad604

Normally, I would say the flush wins, CARD SPEAKS, but as the player holding the flush told the other guy that it is his, I don't see what the agrument is all about.

Is this acceptable under the rules? If the cards speak dosen't the winner have to be the one the pot is awarded to? How can this work? Can you verbally waive your rights to a won pot?