Whats your ruling on this?

PFunk · #1 (**permalink**) 01-09-2006, 12:59 PM

Different games handle this differently, so I'd like to see what you all do....

When there is action on a hand pre-flop: you have bet, call, raise, call and then...The dealer half paying attention starts to deal the flop, burning a card and proceeding to deal the first card of the flop before the last person to act in the hand has had opportunity to call the last raise...everyone sees this card...What is your ruling on this in your game?

This annoys me beyond end, and I like a complete re-deal of the hand entirely, though this rarely happens....In a fantasy poker league I play in locally, their ruling is the deck is re-shuffled and the flop is done again....thats not a bad solution, but when this happens it tends to sour the whole hand for me completely.

What do you do when this happens on the turn or river as well? A card is exposed for a player who has not acted in the hand yet to see, and they must make a decision to call a bet/raise....

Im not sure the "official" ruling is, but i was kind of curious.

P.

Spaceman Spiff · #2 (**permalink**) 01-09-2006, 01:05 PM

I believe the correct ruling would be to pull the card back, re-shuffle the remaining deck and redeal the flop. I think the burn card stays burned, but I'm not 100% positive on this.

Same deal on the turn or river. If they're exposed by dealer error, reshuffle and redeal the street.

I think Robert's Rules has a pretty extensive section on Dealer Errors and HPT used to have a nice printout for it also. Haven't been there in awhile though, so I don't know if it's still there. In any case, it's a good thing to print out and post at your game so there's no confusion or arguing.

BTW, I think this is why you'll see casino dealers rap the table before they burn and turn. Gives the table an extra second or two to catch them before prematurely dealing a card.

jamby · #3 (**permalink**) 01-09-2006, 01:25 PM

If the flop needs to be redealt because the cards were prematurely flopped before the betting was complete, or the flop contained too many cards, the boardcards are mixed with the remainder of the deck. The burncard remains on the table. After shuffling, the dealer cuts the deck and deals a new flop without burning a card. [See “Section 16 – Explanations,” discussion #2, for more information on this rule.]

This is the section from RR addressing the situation you bring up. The entire doc can be found here: http://www.chiptalk.net/index.php?Ch...berts_Rules#S3

I've most often seen the burn card replace the single exposed card rather than reshuffling though.

-jamby

VARoadstter · #4 (**permalink**) 01-09-2006, 01:49 PM

It's difficult to kill a hand that has had action except in the most "uncorrectable" of circumstances.

Reshuffling and proceeding seems a perfectly reasonable solution and is certainly fair. I see no problems here, whereas if you were holding pocket aces and had the nut full-house on the flop only to have the hand killed due to a "correctable" dealer error seems like it would cause quite a bit of trouble!

Colquhoun · #5 (**permalink**) 01-09-2006, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamby

I've most often seen the burn card replace the single exposed card rather than reshuffling though.

I have also seen this, but it is unfair. If the exposed card is of value to any player, taking it out of play seems wrong. Replacing the card in the deck and reshuffling at least gives the opportunity for it to appear again.

99%evil · #6 (**permalink**) 01-09-2006, 03:53 PM

A big pet peeve, this happened to me in a hand recently. I had top pair and was continually betting against a person I had put on a draw. I bet on the turn and the river and the dealer dealt the river before the other player could call. The card that was re dealt made the guy his flush, if not for dealer error, I would have won this considerable pot. I was steaming a bit to say the least.

PFunk · #7 (**permalink**) 01-10-2006, 01:03 AM

Yea, thats the only reason I posted this probably and it bothered me so much was because it caused me to lose a pretty big pot....lol

Mistakes happen and I've probably done it before, but its just annoying to me and it tilts me about the hand a little or something after that, but I just have to not let it bother me I guess...No big deal if it happens on a limped flop, but when your really invested and it causes u to lose the pot on the turn, river, or some ridiculous new flop because of dealer error, it just sucks

P.

JustinHEMI04 · #8 (**permalink**) 01-10-2006, 07:42 AM

We follow roberts rules as already quoted in my game.

Justin

SandmanDC · #9 (**permalink**) 01-10-2006, 09:50 AM

If it happens more than once, Shoot the dealer!!!

Spaceman Spiff · #10 (**permalink**) 01-10-2006, 10:17 AM

It is a pain, but to remain off tilt it's good just to remember that it's part of the game and the breaks do tend to even out over the long term. So this time the redealt gave your opponent the flush he wouldn't have hit, but next time it may give him the flush while also giving you the boat!

Accidents happen though. I like to consider myself a pretty good dealer. I can usually whip them out pretty quickly. But sometimes to the good ol fumble fingers decide to step out. I have a particular friend who, for whatever reason, I always seem to flip one of his cards at some point during the night. And I would say about 80% of the time, it turns out to be an ace! Needless to say, he usually isn't as amused by it as I am.