[Dimes]

If the betting was not over, but the error was found before any actual betting took place, I think the 5 should just be treated like a "exposed card" by the dealer. I guess the cards laid out should still count. As the right cards are already out there on the table, reshuffling the flashed card into the pack is not necessary. Everybody would know the identity of the card - just good/bad luck it has any influence on the play. Robert's rules do not seem to specifically deal with this as the whole procedure is incorrect. If the "house rules" allow the procedure of laying out cards before it is necessary, the "house rules" should also deal with what happens in case of irregularities.

If someone acted after the error had occurred but before it was discovered, you probably have to let the exposed card stand ("Once action has been taken on a boardcard, the card must stand") and then use the 4th (or 5th?) laid out board card as the river after the principle that boardcards should be as close to the boardcards that would have been without the error.

TT

[dad604]

Looks like 100% agreement so far that the predealt card is the proper card to play.

[JustinHEMI04]

I agree that in your scenerio, the predealt card should be used. However, I submit that predealing cards should not be allowed. In that case, if the dealer accidentally deals the turn BEFORE action is complete, the turn is dead. You put the card back into the deck, reshuffle what is left of the deck minus the already burnt cards, and deal another turn, then burn and turn the river.

Justin

[littlebu]

I voted for using the predealt card. However I do not agree with pre dealing the cards for the reasons many have already stated.

[Oldcycles]

I really hate pre dealing, it drives me nuts!!!!
I argued against it so much that one of the local games I use to go to quit inviting me. (that or because I kept winning).

And yes I know they were not cheating because they were my cards and they were donks.

Oh and use the predealt card.

[jojobinks]

yeah, the thing is, you're all wrong.

let's say you're playing blackjack, and you're holding 83 vs the dealer's 6. you're getting ready to double, when all of a sudden the douchebag to your right hits his 16! of course, he's dealt a ten, and he busts.

you double down, and get a deuce.

is it the guys fault to your right that you busted? if he had made the right play, you'd have gotten that T!

in the hand described by W, the turn card was a random card of the 46 remaining. the fact that it wasn't the one predealt is inconsequential.

IMO, i did a stupid thing by predealing and then dealing off the deck. of course it was dumb. it was also 1:30, and i felt half dead. we never predeal. as in never. i did it last night b/c i had to stay 'til the end, i was slightly steamed about my bustout, and was trying to get them finished. the only thing stupider than what actually happened would have been telling the guy who hit trips to win the tournament "sorry, dude, that wasn't the correct turn card. i know it's a turn card. i know no one cheated. i know that it's just one of 46 cards, at random. i know all that, but you see, that one there on the table was predealt. sorry, man."

that seems pretty ridiculous to me. i understand it wasn't procedurally correct, but procedure really only exists to keep things fair and safe. both players were comfortable that nothing fishy was going on, so the intent of the procedure, that each card dealt out is at random, fairly and without any kind of prior knowledge or cheating, was met.

flame away boys, but i'm shocked at the responses so far.

[Matthew]

No flame - if everyone is satisfied with the results - the ruling stands. I think the group I play with would have cancelled the 5 and used the pre-delt cards.

We've had a case on all ins where cards are turned up, no betting to follow and there was no burn before the river. We all chimmed in - no burn card and we used the next card to decide the hand. Fortunately it didn't make a difference in the outcome.

Like I siad - it worked - no ones mad - so the agreement all y'all made is better.

[Dimes]

I completely disagree, Jojo.

The principle of poker dealing is different from black jack dealing. In poker, when the cards are shuffled, everybody's cards and the cards of the board are in principle determined. Card no 1 goes to player no 1, card no 2 goes to player no 2 etc. Card no 2n+1 (n = the number of players) is the burn card. Card no 2n+2, 2n+3 and 2n+4 are the flop etc. All rules regarding misdeals are built on the principle of retaining the cards every player and the board should have had if there were no errors - to the extent possible.

So when you lay out the board cards, these cards are to be used, if at all possible. That you turn a wrong card, does not change this, (at least as long as no action has occurred afterwards).

TT

[ky70]

A bit touchy aren't we Jojo

Seriously, I thought the comments were directed at the idea of pre dealing the community cards and not the error or dealer.

Point taken about the cards being random but allowing the trips to stand is truly an error (IMO). You will have burned 4 cards (burn card after flop, pre dealt turn card, burn card after turn card and pre dealt river card) before the 5 is flipped. I'm sorry but I don't know of any explanation that would justify the 5 being the "good" turn card.

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by ky70

A bit touchy aren't we Jojo

well, yeah, i s'pose that's true.

i'm still right, though.