Poker as a fundraiser?

CRider · Tweet this Post! #1 04-13-2009, 10:24 AM

Morning guys, got a question for you. And to answer your first question back, yes, I've already contacted a lawyer to check out the specific legalities of my question in Pennsylvania...but I thought I'd toss this out here for ideas, thoughts, etc.

I'm a volunteer firefighter for a small town fire company. Times being what they are, we're always looking for new and interesting ways to raise money to pay for equipment, training, fire gear, etc. This stuff isn't cheap. A thought that a buddy & mine came up with the other day was a poker tournament. We do have a PA Small Games of Chance license...this covers bingo and a $0.25 ante (no betting) poker game at our carnival, although I'm not sure if it even applies to this idea. I'm thinking of a $20 buy-in/donation with cash prizes for maybe the top 3-6 places? It's a rather large firehall that we have, I could easily seat 8-10 tables and believe I could get a large enough draw to fill those tables. Example - if I seat 64 people, that's a total buy-in of $1280. Figure $700 goes towards the fire company and $580 would go towards the cash prizes. That's a decent take for a one night fundraiser for us and I think it'd be a pretty good incentive for players. We'd also have food and drink (non-alcoholic as our by-laws do have a no-alcohol clause...but no gambling clause that I've found as of yet). I know it's not a huge pot for winners, but not bad either for a $20 buy-in.

Like I said, I've already emailed the fire company's lawyer to look into this and am waiting on his response. My questions to the fine folks here are:

1 - Do you think this might just be legal?
2 - If it is, do you think it's a good idea as a fundraiser?
3 - If a local fire company (or maybe another volunteer organization) were to hold something like this, would YOU be interested in participating in something like this?
4 - Any other thoughts and ideas?

Hopefully I'm not way off base here and actually have a shot at it. If not...eh well, nothing ventured nothing gained right? Thanks in advance for any thoughts you may provide...

Chris

Ragman · Tweet this Post! #2 04-13-2009, 11:08 AM

Chris,
Yes, it's a good idea as long as it's legal in PA. I run a fundraising tournament here in Michigan for our local summer festival. It's been a good fundraiser for us. We have to get a $50 license from the state to run it, so it's best to check with your state government regarding gambling license, etc.
We have a $50 buy-in and that includes a light lunch for players. We keep about 40% of the buy-in and use the rest for the prize pool. We usually get about 50 players (I'm in a small rural area.)
We also run a 50-50 drawing during the night which raises a little more money.
In fact, we're having our tournament this Saturday night from 7 pm to 1 am. I've included an optional rebuy if anyone busts out in the first hour and also an optional add-on in the first hour if players want to add to their chipstack.
--Doug
Also, here is the website for our state regarding licenses, rules, etc.
http://www.michigan.gov/cg

ericmalone · Tweet this Post! #3 04-13-2009, 11:18 AM

It all depends on state laws. Here in Missouri, it would certainly not be legal. Elsewhere, who knows? Your lawyer should be able to tell you more. If you don't have any legal problems, I would suggest getting prizes donated from local businesses to put together prize packages for the top finishers. Then you don't have to worry about how much to take out of the pot, and you get to keep the whole pot for your charity.

CRider · Tweet this Post! #4 04-13-2009, 11:24 AM

Thanks Doug! The 50-50 drawing idea was tossed in as an additional fundraiser (we run them alot at bingo and carnival). Your link helped me find Pennsylvania Charitable Raffles Which wasn't as helpful as I'd hoped. It doesn't specifically (as far as I can tell anyhow) rule out poker games, but really doesn't rule them in either. Still looking around to see if I can find more on it since the lawyer may take some time to get back to me. The only poker it mentioned is video poker machines (illegal). Some good ideas there, thanks again!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragman

Chris,
Yes, it's a good idea as long as it's legal in PA. I run a fundraising tournament here in Michigan for our local summer festival. It's been a good fundraiser for us. We have to get a $50 license from the state to run it, so it's best to check with your state government regarding gambling license, etc.
We have a $50 buy-in and that includes a light lunch for players. We keep about 40% of the buy-in and use the rest for the prize pool. We usually get about 50 players (I'm in a small rural area.)
We also run a 50-50 drawing during the night which raises a little more money.
In fact, we're having our tournament this Saturday night from 7 pm to 1 am. I've included an optional rebuy if anyone busts out in the first hour and also an optional add-on in the first hour if players want to add to their chipstack.
--Doug
Also, here is the website for our state regarding licenses, rules, etc.
CHARITABLE GAMING - Charitable Gaming

CRider · Tweet this Post! #5 04-13-2009, 11:31 AM

Thanks Eric! Prizes are a consideration...but it's getting harder to get prize donations from local businesses lately. Harder economic times + pretty rural area (ie - not a lot of businesses to start with) make it more difficult as we've seen with other raffles and bingos we've run. I'll keep the idea in thought though as it may be a possibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericmalone

It all depends on state laws. Here in Missouri, it would certainly not be legal. Elsewhere, who knows? Your lawyer should be able to tell you more. If you don't have any legal problems, I would suggest getting prizes donated from local businesses to put together prize packages for the top finishers. Then you don't have to worry about how much to take out of the pot, and you get to keep the whole pot for your charity.

guinness · Tweet this Post! #6 04-13-2009, 12:42 PM

In New Hampshire, we have licensed organizations that will run the poker fundraiser for you. They provide chips, tables, dealers, floor person, cards, etc and take a cut of the monies. The legal and management fall on them so although they scoop some of the cash its probably worth it.

WolfPack · Tweet this Post! #7 04-13-2009, 01:15 PM

youIf I were considering playing I would expect the charity/payout to be at least 50/50 and I would want to know the starting stacks and blinds. I don't like turbo type tournaments. a church around here runs a 2k in chips, blinds double every 15 minutes, I played it once but won't go back.

CRider · Tweet this Post! #8 04-13-2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guinness

In New Hampshire, we have licensed organizations that will run the poker fundraiser for you. They provide chips, tables, dealers, floor person, cards, etc and take a cut of the monies. The legal and management fall on them so although they scoop some of the cash its probably worth it.

Interesting idea, I'll have to look into that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfPack

youIf I were considering playing I would expect the charity/payout to be at least 50/50 and I would want to know the starting stacks and blinds. I don't like turbo type tournaments. a church around here runs a 2k in chips, blinds double every 15 minutes, I played it once but won't go back.

Basic format I'm looking at is starting stack of 5k in chips, blinds starting at 100/200, going up every 20 or 30 minutes, amounts of blind increase not decided yet...although, a LOT of this is still way up in the air as it's just a fledgling idea at this point and I'll have some time to plan it out should I get the green light from the lawyer.

Edited to add - Should I get the green-light to do this, my goal is to make this a fun fund-raiser that people will want to come back to again, and hold this fund-raiser every 1-3 months depending on interest.

WolfPack · Tweet this Post! #9 04-13-2009, 01:23 PM

might want to rethink this.

this article even mentions a case of tournaments in a firehall
Cards in the Air - News - News - Pittsburgh City Paper

CRider · Tweet this Post! #10 04-13-2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfPack

might want to rethink this.

this article even mentions a case of tournaments in a firehall
Cards in the Air - News - News - Pittsburgh City Paper

Hrm...well that could put a kink in the whole thing right there. I won't even take it to the company if there's the chance of it. The article doesn't mention however if they have a small games of chance license so maybe that'd help...and it does mention the guy running the tourny getting a cut which could also be part of the issue. The only rake taking place in my instance would be directly to the fire company. Dunno if that'd make a difference or not...I'm thinking it's going to end up being one of those "rewards not worth the risks" sort of things for the fire company. Thanks for posting that article WolfPack, defintely food for thought.