How can I accept money and keep the game legal?

[dajebriza]

I would like to turn my irregular game into a regular game (every 2 weeks or so). I usually buy the beer and soda and ask guests to bring snack foods. The cost of beer does add up. Is there any way I can ask the guests contribute a couple dollars but not have it constitute a rake or fee for playing, so the game doesn't delve into illegal territory? What if I put a "tips for the host" or "donations only" jar on the food table away from the poker table?

[Gameface]

BYOB

That's how I would do it. I would rather buy my own beer than pay you to buy beer for me.

[texred1]

Originally Posted by dajebriza

I would like to turn my irregular game into a regular game (every 2 weeks or so). I usually buy the beer and soda and ask guests to bring snack foods. The cost of beer does add up. Is there any way I can ask the guests contribute a couple dollars but not have it constitute a rake or fee for playing, so the game doesn't delve into illegal territory? What if I put a "tips for the host" or "donations only" jar on the food table away from the poker table?

Selling beer without a liquor license is a much worse crime than taking a poker rake. I would avoid this altogether.

~dustin

[tomb1]

Your game is probably illegal already, if you're playing for money.* Your NCAA pool and fantasy foolball are also illegal if there's money involved. If you're worried about being illegal, don't play. But of course this is a stupid law and nobody worries about it, unless your'e trying to make big money commercially. Or unless you piss off one of the cops in your town.

If you're not gonna get raided, then it doesn't matter if there's a rake or tip jar or whatever. If you do get raided, then you'll probably get busted no matter how you try to cover things up.

So my advice is to do whatever makes sense for you and your freiends. It's more a social courtesy than a legal question IMO. Ask the group what they want to do. It'sprobably gonna be illegal, so fugetaboudit.

Worrying about illegal home gambling is like worrying about sending the IRS a 1099 to people who win big in your game!

* OK, OK, I know there are different rules in different states, but this is the most likely answer.

[ElitePoker]

I'm not sure if this applies to your area but I found a way around the system here in my town (in Northern California).

We organized a poker league, with monthly dues and meetings. The dues money ($10/month) is accounted for fully and goes towards website maintanace, poker supplies, food, drinks, poker awards, etc. NO MONEY is ever given directly back to the house.

We have our twice monthly "meetings" where we BS about poker and what-not and then we "just happen" to sit down and play a tournament or cash game. I checked with the local authorities and they said that doing it this way (although working the system) was OK. I have quite a bit of $ invested in my poker room so I couldn't take the chance of my game getting busted and everything confiscated.

You might want to check with your local authorities to see it that would work in your area as well.

[Jambine]

Originally Posted by dajebriza

.... Is there any way I can ask the guests contribute a couple dollars but not have it constitute a rake or fee for playing, so the game doesn't delve into illegal territory?....

No. best you can do is make it BYOB.

[hachkc]

Easy answer is BYOB.

You are already putting up the money for chips, cards, tables plus any associated costs for cleaning the place up before and after the card game. If folks can't handle the responsibility for bringing their own beer, have them decide who is going to bring it this week and then next week, etc. As for legalities, it varies by state but basically anytime the host accepts money he doesn't pay out, they need to be careful.

The one group I play with, we rotate the game on a monthly basis and each host usually provides basic snacks (chips and such) plus water and soda but no beer. About 5 players take turns hosting so its not a big deal. Also, its generally accepted that you round down a few $$$ when you cash out and give the extra to the host; these are usually cash games solely or after the tourney. At another group, the host provides nothing but poker equipment and bathroom facilities and no one complains at all.

[OnTheButton]

Well here in California, a (private) home poker game where the host takes no money other than by winning it while playing, is legal.

We host a game EVERY weekend, give or take a few holidays.

For almost a year now, every Saturday the wife and I stocked up the house with beer, soda, snacks (chips, cookies, etc) and put out a "voluntary tip jar" in the kitchen with a sign next to it with the suggested prices on it. We only asked for the cost to be recovered ($1 a beer, 50 cents a soda...) so the margins were thin to begin with.

We tallied our expenses over 6 months of weekly games, and the tips collected after each game. And as of last week, we pulled the plug on providing these items for the players every time.

We were averaging about $30-40 a week in products consumed, and the tips collected were in the $25 range. Not working IMO. I don't mind losing a few dollars at the table, but then taking it in the shorts with food and drinks surely didn't help my state of mind each week, especially when a player would walk away with $200 in winnings, consumed all evening, and we never say them toss a dime into the tip jar.

It's hard to imagine that people are just "taking" things from our supply, but we surmised that what most people were doing, was to snack and drink all they wanted throughout the night, and then toss some random amount of chips or bills into the jar at the end of the night, instead of actually "paying as they go." If they cashed out for $46 they would pocket the $40 put the $6 in the jar, when they actually might have consumed $10 in stuff.

So now we just emphasize a strict BYOB policy, we put a cooler outside full of ice (the ice is free, heh) and hung a magnetic sign on the fridge that says, "Nothing in here is yours."

If we rotated the games through other peoples houses, and it was our turn every 8 weeks or so, I would not mind picking up a case of beer and soda and "donating" it to the comfort game. This would of course mean that I could drink and snack for free the other 7 weeks when playing at their homes.

But when you are always the host, and your hospitality becomes expected, then you have to change your plan, especially when it is costing you money to be nice to your guests.

[beekeeper]

Don't buy beer or booze for your players. Trust me, if you let them know that you are not providing beer/liquor, they will bring their own. I provide some snacks (snacks are cheap) and let everyone know that I'll pick up a sixpack of CHEAP beer for newcomers. One of our players is a brewmaster, so even Leinengugals (sp?) is p-ss to our crowd. One night of drinking Miller will reform your group. If Miller doesn't do it, try Milwaukee's Best.

[Magus 23]

Well, as far as the illegalities go, it's a bit disingenuous to just write it off as, "Well, it's illegal anyway, so why worry about it?" For example, here in Virginia, playing without a rake is a misdemeanor. Playing with one is a felony. Big difference, even though both are technically "illegal."

At a minimum, I'd make sure that any money exchanged for food/beer/whatever is kept completely separate from the game, and not correlated to stakes or anything else. Keeping everything voluntary is also a good idea. Hell, if you were getting together to watch a football game, and everyone pitched in to send someone around the corner for pizza and beer, it wouldn't legally constitute "selling alcohol." Now, admittedly, having a poker game on the premises could change things legally, so this ain't true legal advice, but it's probably a good minimum threshold.