[BPTDirector]

I've been hosting monthly tourneys for about 18 months now and have most of the kinks ironed out, but have always had complainers about skipping or not being able to skip blinds whenever one of the next blind positions goes out on the previous hand. It's always been my position that no blinds should be skipped whatsoever, the way I see it they are "obligations", like a monthly bill that you just can't turn away from.

So, here's my current no blind skipping method, just looking for comments to see if it still needs tightening up.

The number of players is 8 at the example table for the three scenarios – D stands for dealer, S for small blind, B for big blind.

I will describe a scenario where someone leaves that has dealing or blind responsibilities and will explain from there with a second and sometimes third setup for the table missing the player and the proposed solution noted the same way.

Situation 1 – the person who is supposed to be the next dealer goes out –

Players: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
D S B

Player 2 is supposed to deal the next hand but gets busted out – so here’s my proposal which actually worked out very well last Saturday. The deal stays at 1, 3 now pays the Small blind which he was supposed to, and 4 pays the Big and the game continues without missing a blind.

Next Hand:
Players: 1 3 4 5 6 7 8
D S B

Second Hand:
Players: 1 3 4 5 6 7 8
D S B


Situation 2 – The Big Blind for the hand(Small blind for the next hand) gets busted out –

Players: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
D S B

Player 3 gets busted out and is supposed to be the small blind for the next hand. In addition player 4 is supposed to be the big blind and if things just rotate he will get to skip the big. This is the most confusing and takes two hands to resolve, but here’s how it goes.

First hand after 3 goes out:
Players: 1 2 4 5 6 7 8
D B B

Second hand after 3 goes out:
Players: 1 2 4 5 6 7 8
DS S B

Third hand after 3 goes out when things get back to normal:
Players: 1 2 4 5 6 7 8
D S B

So even though there is the equivalent of 2 big blinds for each of the following hands before any optional bets outside of blinds are made, no one pays extra, and no one gets skipped. Pretty good deal once you get used to it.


Situation 3 – The Big Blind for the next hand gets busted out –

Players: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
D S B

Player 4 is busted out so the Big blind is covered by the next player in line with no missed blinds:

First hand after 4 goes out:
Players: 1 2 3 5 6 7 8
D S B

Second hand after 4 goes out:
Players: 1 2 3 5 6 7 8
D S B

Pretty self explanatory and the easiest of the three

So with all of these situations no one gets the better deal of things as far as skipping blinds. You wouldn't believe the guys that give me grief because they are "supposed" to get a free ride whenever someone goes out and would reduce what I perceive as their obligations. I don't know if the rest of you have these problems, if so, let me know.


All input is accepted, sorry about the long post -

Thanks:
BPTDirector

[BPTDirector]

Sorry, the positions didn't turn out correctly on my first post.

In situation one, the next hand 1 still deals, 3 is the small, 4 is the big.

second hand, 3 is the deal, 4 the small, 5 the big

In situation two, the first hand after 3 is out 2 deals, 4 is a big, 5 is a big

Second hand after 3 is out 4 deals and is a small, 5 is a small, 6 is a big

Third hand after 3 is out 5 Deals, 6 is small, 7 is big

Situation 3 - first hand after 4 goes out 2 Deals, 3 small, 5 big
Second hand after 4 goes out - 3 Deals, 5 small, 6 big.

Thanks;
BPTDirector

[JM]

The way I understand (and do it) is the big blind is NEVER missed. If the person who is in position #1 (ahead of the BB) goes out, then the BB goes to the next player who would be in position #1 for the next hand.

Small blinds are missed when the player who is the BB goes out. The next player who is normally the BB is still the BB, and there is no small.

If the person who is small blind goes out, there is no dealer next. Small and Big blinds are as normal, but the button goes on the empty chair.

[BPTDirector]

I did it like that for awhile, it just seems unfair when sombody gets to skip the small blind in later rounds when blind levels are at say 600/1200 -

BPTDirector

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by BPTDirector

I did it like that for awhile, it just seems unfair when sombody gets to skip the small blind in later rounds when blind levels are at say 600/1200 -

BPTDirector

Let me try to clarify here:

With the dead button rule, no player skips paying the SB. Only the "table" is short a SB.

When the person who is supposed to be the SB is eliminated the hand before, the button moves per normal. Whomever is supposed to pay the BB does, and no SB is posted by the empty seat.

The next hand, the button moves to the empty seat (or stays on the same person, whichever way you want to look at it). The SB and BB are posted as normal, and no person skips a blind.

[hachkc]

This is how we do it, nobody ever misses a SB or BB. The worst that happens is someone may have to deal several times in a row.

[pager23]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

Let me try to clarify here:

With the dead button rule, no player skips paying the SB. Only the "table" is short a SB.

When the person who is supposed to be the SB is eliminated the hand before, the button moves per normal. Whomever is supposed to pay the BB does, and no SB is posted by the empty seat.

The next hand, the button moves to the empty seat (or stays on the same person, whichever way you want to look at it). The SB and BB are posted as normal, and no person skips a blind.

Exactly. In later rounds no-one gets to skip the small blind. There just isn't one.

This is the way we've played at our home games, and it has worked well. I'm interested to see how a B&M does it, though.

[Double Eagle]

Dead button: The big blind is posted by the player due for it, and the small blind and button are positioned accordingly, even if this means the small blind or the button is placed in front of an empty seat, giving the same player the privilege of last action on consecutive hands.

[smoore]

Like the others have said, use a "dead button" in tournaments, someone gets to be dealer twice. My personal record is four I busted three of those players.

In a cash game, use a "forward moving button" if you want to be like vegas. Continue with the dead button if you don't want to piss people off. IMO, the FWB rule was created to pump rake.

[R Deckard]

The only way I've seen this handled (from my extensive B&M cash game experience) is the "Moving Button" method:

(From "Robert's Rules of Poker")

• § 4, ¶ 2: Each round every player must get an opportunity for the button, and meet the total amount of the blind obligations. Either of the following methods of button and blind placement may be designated to do this:
  
  (a) Moving button – The button always moves forward to the next player and the blinds adjust accordingly. There may be more than one big blind .
  
  (b) Dead button – The big blind is posted by the player due for it, and the small blind and button are positioned accordingly, even if this means the small blind or the button is placed in front of an empty seat, giving the same player the privilege of last action on consecutive hands.
  
  § 16: Poker tradition has a lot to do with the fact that both of these methods are in widespread use, but neither method is superior in all situations. The moving button makes sure no player gets the advantage of last action twice on a round (a big advantage at no-limit or pot-limit play). On the other hand, a player may get to post a blind when on the button, which is more advantageous than posting in front of the button. The moving button creates a situation where two big blinds may be posted on a deal, which speeds up the action. At tournament play this speed-up can be undesirable, as when dealing is being done hand-for-hand to balance the pace of play between two remaining tables. A cardroom may either decide for the sake of simplicity to use only one method, or decide to tailor the method to the game and situation.

Now, how to put it into practice? Here's the setup for my example Scenarios:

Hand 1: Player A is SB, Player B is BB, Player C is UTG, Player D is CO, Player E is Dealer.

Scenario A: On Hand 1, SB (Player A) busts-out.

• Hand 2: Move the button past the vacated seat to Player B, who posts his Small Blind "on the button". Player C and Player D both post a Big Blind.
• Hand 3: Move the button to Player C. Player C and Player D both post a Small Blind. Player E posts a Big Blind.
• Hand 4: Move the button to Player D. Blinds are posted as normal.

Scenario B: On Hand 1, BB (Player B) busts-out.

• Hand 2: Move the button as normal to Player A. Player C and player D both post a Big Blind.
• Hand 3: Move the button to Player C. Player C posts a Small Blind "on the button", and Player D posts a Small Blind. Player E posts a Big Blind.
• Hand 4: Move the button to Player D. Blinds are posted as normal.

Scenario C: On Hand 1, UTG (Player C) busts-out.

• Hand 2: Move the button as normal to Player A. Simply ignore the fact that Player C even existed; blinds are posted as normal--Player B posts his Small Blind, Player D posts a Big Blind.