[hico]

Kill Pot question.
Thinking about introducing a “kill” feature to my home limit game.
My understanding of the kill pot is to temporally increase the betting limits.
Any player wining two pots in a row forces a full kill (double stakes) or half kill ( 1.5) on the next pot only.
Typically the kill-button is placed in or near the pot to remind all players that this round is at higher stakes.
After the kill pot is won the button is removed until next player wins two pots in a row.

Am I missing anything important about using a kill?

The resent threads about a custom 2 inch kill button got me thinking about its use.
If the button had “kill” on one side and “winner” on the other side it could stay on the table to induce increased betting on all rounds.
On every round the dealer would push this button (winner side up) along with the pot to the winner.
The winner leaves the this button in front of him near the betting line, effectively placing a target on himself for the next round.
The winner may think ‘I just won I can be more liberal with my next bets’ and all other players may think ‘he just won and I want some of it back or he’s got free money and may be inclined to bluff’. All erroneous thinking but hey the object here is to get more money in play.
If a different player wins the next pot he gets the winner button and sits with the target on him.
If the same player wins the next pot the dealer flips the button over (kill side up) leaving it in front of the winner and the next round is double stakes as usual and even more money is in play.

Only real difference is that the button would be effective on all rounds.
Is this worth trying or just too much of a gimmick to even consider?
May be the kind of gimmick that ‘brick-and-mortar’ rooms would jump on what do you think?

[mirageII]

The kill button is initially placed in the center of the table (in the pot) with the OFF side upwards

When a player wins the pot the kill button is "pushed" with the pot to the player. The player places the kill button out in front of his chips (where s/he will place their bets) with the OFF side still up. Betting limits remain the same

If that player splits the next pot they will keep the button with the OFF side up and betting limits stay the same
If the player wins the pot s/he turns over the button to show the kill side and betting limits are doubled on the next round.

---- Double limit round

If he wins again he keeps the KILL and limits stay doubled
If he loses, the button moves to the player who won and is placed in the OFF state.


I found that if your game is loose then this will make it more wild. If you game is tight then I found that people did not want to win two pots in a row and it actally slowed the action.

[hico]

Originally Posted by mirageII

I found that if your game is loose then this will make it more wild. If you game is tight then I found that people did not want to win two pots in a row and it actally slowed the action.

interesting, I never really concidered that it might slow the action. Thanks for the help.

[jdunford]

Originally Posted by mirageII

I found that if your game is loose then this will make it more wild. If you game is tight then I found that people did not want to win two pots in a row and it actally slowed the action.

Agreed.

One thing I'll mention about the "doubling the limits": When the Kill button is "on", the small and big blinds post as usual, and the person with the Kill button posts 2x the big blind (assuming "full kills", as opposed to "half kills"), regardless of position. Action occurs from UTG, as usual, but must call at least 2x the big blind, and bet as though the limits are doubled on all rounds.

It's almost like a straddle bet, but doesn't depend on position. That's why, at a tight game, players will avoid winning two consecutive pots (i.e. will fold any marginal pre-flop hand) to avoid having to blindly post 2x the big blind on the next hand.

Now, if you're playing at micro-stakes, esp. below what the players are used to playing, then they might even loosen up and try to win 2 in a row to effectively double the stakes... but I haven't observed this myself.

[dad604]

For me, personally, I would not want to be the killer as I would have to post 2x bb. I think the percentage of being a killer would be higher for the looser players as they would have more of a chance to win 2 in a row.

Also, at some poker rooms, a player winning a pot that reaches a certain high level would trigger a kill for the next hand with the winner of the big pot being the killer.

[Wooderson]

Originally Posted by mirageII

If that player splits the next pot they will keep the button with the OFF side up and betting limits stay the same
If the player wins the pot s/he turns over the button to show the kill side and betting limits are doubled on the next round.

I assume that if the player loses, the button moves to the player who won and is placed in the OFF state?

[mirageII]

Originally Posted by Wooderson

I assume that if the player loses, the button moves to the player who won and is placed in the OFF state?

That is correct!

[roxtarbaer]

and a good way to stop people from dumping pots in a NL game (to not get the kill button) is to play your kill games the way i do it in my home game, and the way i've seen it done in some casinos...

for our kill game, the button doesn't move the the player who wins two pots in a row, but moves to anyone who wins a pot at a certain amount of the BB... we play 10x BB... so in a 1/2 NL game a $20 pot gets the kill button... no one is going to dump a $20 pot in order not to post the $4 kill... we've also played half kill at 5X, with a full kill at 10x... it works well in a NL game because there is a kill almost every hand ($10 pot), which pumps the pot... and in my case, makes my game almost a 2/4 (where I want it), but my boys don't... so it makes for a good compromise for me because at least theres $6 dead money pre-flop (like a 2/4)...

it makes for a fun game...

[dad604]

It doesn't make sense to have a kill for a NL game. The idea of kill game is to increase (2x or 1.5x) the betting limit, for NL you can bet as much as you want. The only thing I can see a kill in NL is to have just to more in the blinds preflop which is not that big a deal in NL.

Just my 2 cents.

[roxtarbaer]

Originally Posted by dad604

It doesn't make sense to have a kill for a NL game. The idea of kill game is to increase (2x or 1.5x) the betting limit, for NL you can bet as much as you want. The only thing I can see a kill in NL is to have just to more in the blinds preflop which is not that big a deal in NL.

Just my 2 cents.

well then there would be no point in playing .25/.50 compared to 5/10 because you can bet as much as you want...

in a NL game the kill pot puts more dead money out front... so it costs more to play... a 1/2 with a full kill on would put $7 in dead money out, plus make the big bet $4 as opposed to $2... that's a considerable difference... the idea of a kill game in NL is to increase, not the betting limits, but the betting minimum... in a NL 1/2 game a standard raise would be 2.5/3x $2 ($6)... with a full kill the standard raise pre-flop would be 2.5-3x $4 ($12)...

not to mention the difference in play you get with a third blind posted from what could be any position... it makes for a different game... and makes sense because it pumps up some pots... it amounts to the same kind of effect as a straddle... tell me the straddle doesn't make sense in a NL game... both are used regularly in NL...

and in my case it allows me to run the 1/2 that my boys want with a little more action involved... they don't want to play with a straddle every hand, but they don't mind when a kill has to be posted... they find it adds another level of play and fun.