[ElitePoker]

So I run a league and host all the games at my place. I've been doing this for about two years now and we have it all figured out. We have monthly meetings, hold tourneys and cash games and work within the framework of a Tournament of Champions system with points earned at every event. Point totals determine starting chip stack at TOC...etc.

Anyways, this isn't about my group it's about a group that just started up close to me. A friend of a friend wanted to start a group of his own. I assisted with giving advice on how our events are run and what has worked/not worked. He took a bunch of my advice and made it to fit their needs. One of the details he didn't copy was the rule of having your point totals determine the starting chip stack at TOC. He decided that it didn't matter how many events you attended, that as long as you won a tournament you would earn your entry into the TOC and all chip stacks would be equal. No big deal...to each their own.

Here is where it gets funny. I win tournament #02 a couple months ago, my TOC attendance is now guaranteed. I play in event #03 last month with a different strategy becauses everyone there is looking to win the tournament (so am I of course) but I don't have to be as passive because I've already won an event. I confirmed with the group leader that if I win the event again it won't make any difference in my TOC standings because I'm already in. I end up busting out of the tournament in 7th (24 entries) after a guy catches a miracle runner-runner straight.

Fast forward to event #4 which is being held tonight, I can't attend but figure it isn't a big deal because, again...I'm already in the TOC. I told the guy running the group that I wasn't going to make the game a couple weeks ago. So I get a call from my friend today and he tells me that he just heard from the group leader and that it sucks that I can't make the tournament because the group leader told him that they were going to make a change and have the points earned throughout the season determine starting chip stack at the TOC now.

My beefs are two fold: (1) I wouldn't have played the same way in the tournament after I won if I would have known that every place that I finish higher makes a difference. (2) I would have done everyhing I could to be able to make it to the tournament tonight.

I asked the group director this afternoon about the change and the only thing he said was that I was getting "too technical" about it and "bottom line, he wanted the winners to continue to show up". He said that he talked to a few of the other guys in the group and they all agreed that it would make sense to make the change. The other four guys that he asked are #1,#3, #5 in points earned (there are roughly 30 people in the group).

Should I be as upset as I feel about this?

[Quads]

I would feel the same. BS!!!

Ask him how he would feel if he was playing the WSOP and they changed the rules 1/2 way through. Would that be fair? And if not, then why is it OK for him to do the same thing in his league?

That's a bullshit move to change the rules half way though. Likely the worst thing he could have done to the group.

Regardless of how you played, your strategy, etc. Rules of a league shouldn't change, unless by some issue which is required to keep the group together, and all players vote on it.

[gpc]

I think you should be upset. Changing the rules midseason is unacceptable especially when not everyone in the league has a say.

So does this mean that you are not gaurenteed entry into the TOC anymore? If so that is BS.

[UW85]

Originally Posted by ElitePoker

Should I be as upset as I feel about this?

Honestly, no. It's your friend's gig, regardless of how much you taught him. That's got nothing to do with it. It's his house, his game and unless there is big, big money involved, let it go. I've run a game for two years and I'm no where near as sophisticated with my points and TOC as you are and I much prefer it that way. We are decent players but winning isn't everything and we're there much more for the fun of the game & being around buddies than anything else. Sounds to me like your friend is similar. Relax about the whole thing, go play and enjoy your friends. If winning IS that big of a deal to you, or the way your friend runs the points is something you can't live with, then you might want to not play. I'd bet money there was NO conspiracy (sp?) of those other guys as you hint.

One HUGE question -- have you talked directly to your friend? If so, OK, but if not you must hear his side. And assuming you have not, when you do, just listen and hear what he has to say -- don't challenge him. I'm guessing he's not as "seasoned" as you are. Let him grow and develop whatever game is right for him. Hopefully it will be right for you as well. OK, I'm done. Best of luck -- talk to your friend!
U-dub

[ElitePoker]

Thanks Quads for the feedback...how's new daddy life treating you? I'm right behind you (wife due May 1st).

"qpc", I will still be able to attend the TOC but I'll be starting short stacked because I probably won't go back to any more tournaments this season. I feel strongly that I am almost being singled out with this move.

[bigjohn]

Were the rules "officially" written down or just verbal?

[ElitePoker]

"UW85"...

I have talked (albeit via email) to the group leader about this and explained my issues with the change and asked if we could have a group vote about it. Not just a vote among the point leaders and he said that basically it was his group and that he has the final say.

I think this rule did come up because I told him I wasn't going to make it this month. The friend that called me to tell me about the change told me that the reason they (group leader and friends) started discussing this change was because I said I wasn't going to make it to the tourney and because I mentioned that it didn't matter because I was already in the TOC. Make sense?

I agree that poker should be fun and that is the main reason I play...I just kind of feel like I'm getting "jobbed" here.

[ElitePoker]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Were the rules "officially" written down or just verbal?

Written down and posted on the wall in paper at each tournament...

He also emailed them out at the beginning of the season.

[develvjd-]

Originally Posted by Quads

... bullshit ...

Well said Quads, my thoughts exactly. You just don't change the rules half way through. Period.

ELITE: My wife is due May 1st as well, Little boy #2! Good luck and God Bless brother!

[UW85]

Elite,

Maybe I'm missing something. IF this is a real big deal -- meaning guys are paying good money upfront to belong to this league and you all agreed to play one way and now it's being changed I can see your point. Your using words like "director" and "league" and I'm wondering if my once a month game is an equal -- meaning I guess you'd call me the director and you could call our gig a league but nobody does.

I just went back and reread your post. As I see it you've missed ONE out of 12 months. Shouldn't be that big of a deal -- for all you know you would have busted out first. The follow up month you speak of when you played differently, you say yourself that you went out 7th of 24 entries and it was a runner-runner suck out -- sounds to me like you were playing to win and were winning until the suck out. The way you played that month had nothing to do with you losing -- you got sucked out on right? I know I'm not giving you what you want to hear right now, but again, from my outside view looking in you sound way too upset for what has really happened. You're still in it, you must be a very good poker player -- so look at it as a challenge and go kick some *ss over the next few months.