[jldecarlo]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

I'd love to see the small key mold come back into production.

But then, would you have to re-order all of your chips?

L

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by jldecarlo

But then, would you have to re-order all of your chips?

L

Very good question. I'm certainly beyond pleased with my chips, but the small key would be perfect. Luckily, Jim's answer allows me to not worry about what the answer may have been.

Thanks for the quick answer Jim!

[TripKings]

.

Cool thread. There's alot of really neat mold photos on Bob's web site. After seeing all the companies, dates, history, etc it got me to asking myself kinda the opposite question..... why are there so few new molds? It seems that many of the molds in use today by clay chip mfr's were tooled-up many years back. I guess they've become kinda the trademark of the companies using them, but you'd think they'ed try marketing something new once in a while to see if they can find another big seller. I'm not really sure how expensive these molds are to create... anyone have an idea? Do their molds/machines make many chips at a time? You would think so.

Here's the link to the mold page we are referring to - you gotta check it out:
http://www.antiquegamblingchips.com/...index_site.htm

-Tripkings


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[Apotome]

Originally Posted by TripKings

Cool thread. There's alot of really neat mold photos on Bob's web site. After seeing all the companies, dates, history, etc it got me to asking myself kinda the opposite question..... why are there so few new molds?

In a round about way I sort of thinking the same thing when I posed my original question. My guess is that it is probably very expensive to produce new molds. More so now than years ago? I don't know. But it may simply be one of those things that doesn't make economic sense right now.

I noted earlier that my other main hobby is LEGO. And I've come to know from many discussions over the years with other adult builders and with reps from the company that many of the things we (the fans) wish the company could do, they simply can't. Some things, no matter how amazing they may seem to us on the outside simply don't add up when it comes to looking at the dollars and cents. I'm not saying this is the one and only reason there aren't many new molds today, but just suggesting it may be a factor.

Originally Posted by TripKings

Do their molds/machines make many chips at a time? You would think so.

I think Jim noted that one of the reason some of the old molds had been retired was a low volume of chips per cycle. Which again, is really an economic factor, as noted above. Makes perfect sense.

Originally Posted by TripKings

Here's the link to the mold page we are referring to - you gotta check it out:
http://www.antiquegamblingchips.com/...index_site.htm

Yes, thanks for posting the higher level link to that site. Aren't those great pages? I love browsing through and seeing the various designs. I'm trying to pick out the different elements of the old school chips that appeal to me the most, so I can incorporate them into the design for my customs.

Regards,
Allan B.

[Murray B]

[quote="Apotome"]
My guess is that it is probably very expensive to produce new molds. More so now than years ago?
[quote="TripKings"]

Mold is what they call them but I think they are more of a die. They go in a press that applies heat and about 10,000 psi of pressure. This pretty well requires an engraved steel die. Rumour is that a set of these dies costs about $40,000. Of course that is only a small part of the chip maker's start up costs. There is also the cost of the press and a good chip formulation.

A large casino might have their own dies made but have the chips made by a chip company. Since they own the 'mold' only their chips could be made on those dies. If they chose to retire that mold then I think it could not be used again without their permission. Of course, public demand might convince them to un-retire the mold.

Personally, I like Horse Head Right which is a current ASM design and they are easy to get. They don't seem to make your play any more skillful but the losses feel much classier than before.

Now all I need is a nice poker table and it will feel just like losing in a real casino. Except without all those strangers around watching me cry and pound the floor.

[circlencircle]

Originally Posted by Murray B

Mold is what they call them but I think they are more of a die. They go in a press that applies heat and about 10,000 psi of pressure. This pretty well requires an engraved steel die. Rumour is that a set of these dies costs about $40,000. Of course that is only a small part of the chip maker's start up costs. There is also the cost of the press and a good chip formulation.

A large casino might have their own dies made but have the chips made by a chip company. Since they own the 'mold' only their chips could be made on those dies. If they chose to retire that mold then I think it could not be used again without their permission. Of course, public demand might convince them to un-retire the mold.

Personally, I like Horse Head Right which is a current ASM design and they are easy to get. They don't seem to make your play any more skillful but the losses feel much classier than before.

Now all I need is a nice poker table and it will feel just like losing in a real casino. Except without all those strangers around watching me cry and pound the floor.

Of course I am not a manufacturer and have limited experience with this but as I have been working with BlueChip on the Samurai chips I've learned a bit about what they do. #1 They charge $7500 to make a custom mold. I heard from a reliable person that the actual cost to make it is around $2500. As for the small key, it is by far my favorite and I actually did some digging to find out about it. ASM claims they have it and specifically said they have no interest, and absolutely would not use it for a custom order. I even inquired about buying it from them and they were adamant that it was not for sale either.

Prior to this encounter with ASM I talked to Bluechip about creating the mold and they said it would not be possible to re-create the mold because they didn’t know who had the rights to it...

All of this lead me to try and create something similar without it being considered a possible copy, hence the samurai mold...

[jimb]

The small key mold was owned by the poker store in stanton ca. As I recall, it was sent from ASM to blue chip when blue chip first opened. I would call the poker store to check the available of the mold.
jimb

[Dimes]

Originally Posted by Apotome

Another possibly silly question... but is it fair to assume that there are legal restrictions on certain molds?

Yes. Like LEGO owns their design, anybody who creates a mold "owns" it, i.e. nobody can produce chips with the same design. These are just normal copyright rules.

TT, "Legoland"

[imthatguy]

This is a great thread, thanks to those that are contributing. It makes me happy to see some on-topic postings that make me want to read through them. Things have been a little stale around here lately. Great research, it would be awesome if some of these classic molds came back to the market. That Golden Nugget house mold from pc.com's website is perfect!

[Murray B]

Originally Posted by circlencircle

... BlueChip on the Samurai chips I've learned a bit about what they do. #1 They charge $7500 to make a custom mold. I heard from a reliable person that the actual cost to make it is around $2500.

Is this a mold to cast plastic at normal pressures and temperatures? Some manufacturers cast their chips from polymer. Such a mold could be made from brass. Even so, nobody would cast one at a time so they would still need a set. Do you know how many of these molds are in a set? One picture I have seen was for a low-pressure casting machine that cast six chips at a time. Is that $7500 price for one mold or a set?

The $40,000 figure is just something I came upon in my travels. It may not be reliable considering the great secrecy that pervades the industry.

Of course they may not just be paranoid because many Chinese companies would love to obtain these secrets for free. The mainlanders do not consider this stealing because the Communist Party of China maintains that all property belongs to the world. They are universal communists as opposed to the state communists in Russia. Therefore, to the mainland Chinese, all Intellectual Property is automatically theirs. Hmm, no wonder the U.S. based chipmakers are so secretive.