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Old 05-23-2005, 05:00 PM
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boondocker96 boondocker96 is offline
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Trademarks/Pharaohs 'Thickness' issues

any one concerned that our precious Pharoahs will have the same chip thickness differences that the Trademarks seem to be experiencing?
seems a quality product like Paulson wouldnt have these apparent QC issues, and im slightly concerned that stacks of Pharoahs wont line up.
anyone feel my pain?
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Old 05-23-2005, 09:36 PM
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I got my samples today. It's hard to tell with just one chip ofr each color, but they sure feel exactly the same to me by putting them flat on the desk and running a fingernail accross the faces from each direction. Doing this with a green Trademark against a blue JB, the JB is a hair thinner (opposite of what I expected based on the other guy's stacks)

Using my cheapo calipers, they are all the same thickness, .13".
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Old 05-23-2005, 09:36 PM
TripKings TripKings is offline
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.

Jeez, it's only been a few days since i've gotten used to the fact that the mold change was a weak effort, at best.... now the new Paulson/Trademark mold is producing different thickness tolerances than the JB mold? WTF, the JB's stack perfectly!! So, I just ordered over $200 dollars in birdcages and chip racks.... that I might not be able to use!?!?!?!

This has all got to be a big snowball effect from someone cutting corners to produce a "new" mold.... why else would their suddenly be different thicknesses AND the mold printing be different? Someone please cool me down here...... I read this earlier today and just ignored it hoping it was an anomaly... now y'all got me worried. I can't help to think that I'm gonna re-learn a lesson, the hard way.

Christ, what's next?

-TripKings

EDIT: My apologies for such a strong rant on the topic of Pharaoh's mold... again. I just have a real personal problem with poor service, a job not well done, being delivered less than expected.... and keeping my big mouth shut when any of the above occur(or are very likely to occur). G'night.


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Old 05-23-2005, 09:47 PM
TripKings TripKings is offline
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P.S. Here's a link to the photos mrtiscay posted earlier today:

http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/viewto...?p=15957#15957

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Old 05-23-2005, 10:27 PM
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I won't try to move the pics over here. I think they may ultimately find there way into a review. But here's some additional analysis from tonight:

Weight of chips using a postal scale (denom, stack of 7, stack of 20):
JBs 66g n/a (I don't have 20)
$25 70g 200g
$100 68g 198g
$500 70g 200g
$1000 62g 180g

Any ideas on why such a difference in weight (especially after looking at the thickness noted below)?

For average thickness (sorry, i don't have a caliper):
The $25 are the thinnest
Then the $1000
The $500 and $100 are about the same (but there seem to be more thick $100's than the other denoms)

So thickness doesn't correlate to weight.

Generally, I have not found a problem between stacks of the same denominations, its just between stacks of different denominations. There are occasions when stacks within a denomination vary, but if I move chips between stacks, it often evens out.

For the height of stacks of 20:
The $25 are almost totally consistent between stacks
The $100 varies the most and can randomly create the largest stack.
The $500 are pretty close to consistent
I don't have enough $1000 to compare stacks.

Here's what I found (generally speaking, but with exceptions):
41 $100 = 42 $25
45 $1000 = 44 $100
$25 = $100 (most of the time)
$100 = $500 (most of the time)

If you are matching stack sizes between different denominations, stacks of 10 aren't a big problem (but a small problem). You just have to brush your finger a little lighter. When you get to 20, its really easy to brush against the top chip of the taller stack.


It was tough to do a height comparison with my 7 chip JB sample. I stacked the 4 matching denoms together (25, 100, 500, 1000) and they match in size, but with 4 chips its really hard to tell.

I stacked the 7 chip JB sample next to 7 TM $25 & $1000 and they all match in size. Next to 7 TM $100 & $500, the JBs come up short.

I don't have the small denominations of TM or more JBs, so this is the best I could do.


When building a fortress for you winnings, here's what I've found (and I've assumed a mix of different sizes next to each other:

- If you are stacking in levels of 10, the difference is not a problem.
- If you have levels of 20, the difference is noticeable, but there is enough weight and stick/stack to the chips, that they aren't going anywhere and its not too big a deal
- If you have levels of 30, its a problem.


Was this too much information?

Michael

PS: Of note, I have no reference point to variability in other clay chip sets. This was the first one I've owned...soon to be followed by the Pharoahs.
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Old 05-23-2005, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrticsay

Was this too much information?
Nope, you can never have too much info. Thanks for all the detail, and feel free to post even more info if the spirit moves you
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Old 05-23-2005, 11:24 PM
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we already knew the orange was lightest. it seems the dayglow clay is less dense. there was a thread about this a coupla weeks ago.
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Old 05-24-2005, 09:34 AM
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It is hard for me not to gloat a little here and say I told you so. I know that others have done it ie. trademark and Apache, but it is NEVER a good idea to place any sort of an order without proofs.

If chips showed up with uneven stacks when the new Winn casino first got their chips from Paulson, do you think they would have accepted them?
I don't think so....

First of all, if this happened with chips that went to a real casino the manufacturer would not even get licensed to issue chips from the gaming commission. Even if they got past the gaming commission, every casino on the planet would learn of this and avoid that manufacturer like the plague.

Quote:
I'm not sure how it happened, but we were promised chips that are the "same quality as those used in the casinos like Mirage and Bellagio" from the Trademark website, so if they really are different thicknesses, IMO Paulson should fix it.
Casino's would not accept this glaring QC issue and neither should any of us. mrticsay, you, and others that have received sets of the trademark chips should return them and demand that this be made right. If the Pharoah's chips are manufactured this same way, they should all be returned too. This is in no way acceptable.

Paulson, you now should be doubly ashamed of yourselves. First, with the 2005 JB's you put out a mold that does not even match the inlay. It is not even close 7/8" vs 1 1/16", that is a huge mistake. Now you put out chips that don't even stack evenly! These are not just opinions of what one person likes vs what another likes. These are glaring, obvious mistakes. What is next??????????

Paulson, what a joke!
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Old 05-24-2005, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanook
It is hard for me not to gloat a little here and say I told you so. I know that others have done it ie. trademark and Apache, but it is NEVER a good idea to place any sort of an order without proofs.
Had proofs been provided, they would have been in a printed format on paper, NOT actual chips. So the proof argument doesn't really hold up with regard to chip height.

Having said that, I think this height issue is bogus. This group (individuals, HPC.com, Trademark, Apache) is spending $170,000+ on these chips and they don't even stack equally? Isn't that one of the main functions of chips? Someone needs to get Paulson on the horn NOW and get this resolved before they start producing these chips. I've read that only Trademark can contact Paulson directly, so they need to take care of this.

The mold issue may not be cause for order cancellation, but this stacking problem surely is. Enough is enough.
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Old 05-24-2005, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bootylactin
..... I think this height issue is bogus. This group (individuals, HPC.com, Trademark, Apache) is spending $170,000+ on these chips and they don't even stack equally? Isn't that one of the main functions of chips? Someone needs to get Paulson on the horn NOW and get this resolved before they start producing these chips. I've read that only Trademark can contact Paulson directly, so they need to take care of this.

The mold issue may not be cause for order cancellation, but this stacking problem surely is. Enough is enough.
Agreed. Does anyone know if Trademark or Paulson is aware that their new mold is producing thickness intolerances? It seems prudent that someone tries to head this problem off before there are unhappy consumers.

What's most upsetting is that anyone could buy any Chinese made plastic chip set for <.20c each that stack perfectly even.... are we asking too much? I honestly don't know if this is normal for compressed clay chips. I sure hope not.

-Tripkings


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Old 05-24-2005, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TripKings

Agreed. Does anyone know if Trademark or Paulson is aware that their new mold is producing thickness intolerances? It seems prudent that someone tries to head this problem off before there are unhappy consumers.

.
Has someone tried to get in touch with Trademark to get their opinion on this issue? I wonder if they are going to chalk it up to a "bad batch"....whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TripKings
What's most upsetting is that anyone could buy any Chinese made plastic chip set for <.20c each that stack perfectly even.... are we asking too much? I honestly don't know if this is normal for compressed clay chips. I sure hope not..

-Tripkings

.
It bothers me a great deal that after dropping a significant amount of dough on Paulsons, that my Super Diamonds may still be the best set I own. Ok Ok, there's some sarcasm in that statement, but not ENOUGH in my opinion.
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