The VERY LONG cruise report -- WARNING: more long stories added below

[bolgenmod]

Well, my house has stopped moving (it really does happen and for longer than you can imagine), and I have mostly caught up on the 3100 posts I missed, so it is time for my trip report. As you can guess, it will be long!!

A pretty large group of my family and I went on an 8 day cruise to the Caribbean on the Carnival Legend: my sister, her husband, their 11 year old son, their 13 year old daughter, my brother, his wife, her mother, my mother, my boyfriend, and I. We sailed from NYC, two days at sea, then San Juan Puerto Rico, St. Thomas USVI, Tortola BVI, two more days at sea, and back to NYC.

The ship itself was pretty big -- we were parked next to the Intrepid aircraft carrier in NYC, and the Legend was bigger. The room was much nicer and bigger than I imagined it would be. We had an obstructed view, which basically meant that our very large window had a lifeboat in front of it. We didn't care at all -- there was still plenty of light, not that we spent much time in the room. And the room was cheaper because of the obstructed view, so I was very happy with it.

The ship had a casino, of course. Lots of slots, a couple of roulette and craps tables, about 6 blackjack tables, a few of the horrible table games (Let it Ride and that kind of stuff), and two poker tables off to the side technically just outside the casino. The second table, however, never ran, even when there was a list for the main table. (I heard that if they opened another table, it would be 5/10, but almost nobody except me wanted to play that high!)

Before I left, I checked the Carnival sites and 2+2 to see what I could expect. There was not much information at Carnival: the casino is run by another company (which may be owned by the company that owns Carnival and other cruise lines). Their web site included the useful infomation that "Texas Holdem is now being spread on the following ships" and that was about it. Posters on 2+2 said that the game was mostly 3/6 (limit), the rake was terrible (10% up to $5), the dealers were pretty bad, but the play was very, very soft. I found all this except the first to be correct.

The first night at sea, the casino had "low-limit" night, presumably to entice us into the casino. There were $3 blackjack tables (the usual low limit was $5), and the poker was 2/4. After playing a little blackjack with my siblings (and losing $18 ), I got a seat at the poker table. I don't think I had to wait that night, but I don't remember: the table was mostly full when we played (which was usually around 11 or so).

The players were incredibly loose -- most of the pots were at least 5 handed. And I couldn't figure out the rake: the dealer didn't seem to be raking the pots. Seemingly at random, the dealer would take a dollar out of some pots, but it was not at all on a regular basis (like every third pot) or even based on size (larger pots were not raked more or even at all). It was very odd, but of course I did not want to ask: if the dealers don't want to rake the pot, that is FINE with me!!

I didn't get very many hands that night, so after about an hour and a half, the boyfriend (Rob) and I got up. I cashed out up $14, which was not bad considering. (Of course, I kept my chips for most of the trip, both intending to use them for the next night and looking for good chips to collect.) I asked the dealer what the limit would be the next night, and she said 2/4, which seemed odd, but whatever. I found out that she meant the blinds would be 2/4 -- for the rest of the trip it was 4/8 (not 3/6). Again, whatever. (And that made the reluctance to play 5/10 pretty puzzling to me: it's not that much bigger than 4/8!)

The next night I only played for about 45 minutes, perhaps because Rob got hungry and the bigger snack bar closed at 1 (there was pizza and room service 24 hours). I had one memorable hand. I cold-called an EP raise in LP with 88; about 5 other people had already cold-called, so I had the odds. And I flopped a set. The EP raiser bet the flop, and I raised. She bet the turn too, and I raised again. (A few other people called a few flop bets too, but dropped after the turn.) On the river she bet her last chips, I called, and turned over my set. She had aces and couldn't believe I had beat her! Nice. I lost a couple of pots too, but cashed out $25, not bad for 45 minutes.

And the dealers were still mostly not raking the pot: there were a couple of dealers who came on later who started to do the rake I expected (10% up to $5). But by the third night, either they had pulled the non-rakers or I missed them, because the no-rake was gone. Nice while it lasted -- I only wish it had been longer, or I had had better hands those two nights.

The next night (3rd night) I had to replenish my stack when it dipped to $30, but the table was sooo soft that I felt I might still have a good night. People were still calling with anything, raising rarely, calling to the river with bottom pair or an underpair on scary boards, etc. Even though the dealers were now raking they were still terrible. One hand that I was not in: board is K66Ax (no flush). One guy turns over KJo, the other K7o. And the dealer starts to push the pot to KJ guy!! A few of us immediately yell: split pot! The dealer looks again at the board -- I helpfully point out "ace kicker on the board plays" -- and then slowly starts splitting the pot. Seriously.

There were a couple of people who had been at the table every night: a couple of Asian men who were really terrible and kept buying more chips (in increments of $40 or so) as they busted (one was the K7o guy); a man who keep on talking about the big games at Foxwoods, but who was awful nonetheless -- he repeatedly folded his cards to no bet, called to the river and then folded for one bet (not once or twice, about 20 times!), and of course called with just about every hand; a woman who seemed to be his wife/companion who was on a monster run that night -- her crap cards kept on hitting -- but said she needed it to make up for what she lost that day (didn't surprise me: Rob was sitting next to her and confirmed my impression that she gave back a lot of that stack while we were at the table); and a guy with long hair and a spike pierced through his nose (his name was Lowell -- I 'll tell you why I knew his name later).

I built my stack up, and then I had a hand that I HATED, not just because I lost. I raised UTG+1 with black Kings, and of course everyone (ok, about 6 of the other 9) called, including Rob in the BB which actually worried me -- Rob knows my game, and earlier that night he'd folded a hand he limped with to my raise (which may or may not have been a mistake). The flop was Q high with 2 hearts, not terrible, not bad. No obvious straight draws. Lowell bets out (which doesn't really worry me: probably has a queen), and I think that raising will not protect my hand: too much money in the pot, and a few have already called the bet. Better to raise the turn, so I just call. Rob calls, which does worry me -- does he have a set? two pair? flush draw? The turn is a J, but Lowell now checks. Checked to me, I bet, Rob and Lowell and the woman, I believe, call. River is a low heart. Damn. But these guys play unsuited high cards (or A or K and crap) more than suited cards, so when it is checked to me, I bet. The woman, Rob, and Lowell all call. I turn over my kings, and the table is astonished that I actually have a hand (of course Lowell had a Q, the woman had pocket 9s, which she called to river with a Q and a J on the board, not to mention whatever I might have!!). But Rob that damn b*stard has the flush -- he called my raise with T5s!!!! I was a little pissed. (OK, a lot.) He said he knew I had a strong hand, but maybe he could win if he hit the board. And he didn't bet his flush because it was only ten-high. But T5 I said later -- even suited that is pure garbage, blah blah blah. He usually plays so tight (too tight actually), but whatever. I hated that hand not just because I lost, but because I thought he knew better.

Well, Rob of course cashed out about $150 that night; I was up only $54, but better than nothing. We played about an hour and half that night -- almost all our sessions were short because we didn't get to the table until 11 or so, and the table would usually break around 1.

The next couple of nights we didn't play. The fourth night we didn't leave San Juan until midnight, and the casino couldn't open until a half hour after sailing. And Rob and I had gone on an evening kayaking expedition in Puerto Rico (gorgeous!! and now he wants to buy a kayak!) that didn't get back to the ship until after 11:30. The night after that we played a little blackjack with the family -- they were much more into the blackjack -- and went to bed early because we had an early shore excursion. But I made $18 at the BJ tables, making up my earlier BJ loss, so I was happy.

The next night was the night I had hoped for -- I finally got some hands and crushed the table!! I played for an hour and fifteen minutes and cashed out $242 profit!! One hand I got very lucky -- I raised with kings, another guy 3bet, lots of callers. Flop was scary -- AQx, but I bet, 3bet guy raised. Oh dear, I thought, I am beat. But I called because the pot was huge and who knows what these guys actually have (I had seen them turn over some truly astonishing hands). Turn was a J (rainbow board), so I check-called the bet into the giant pot thinking my inside straight draw might be my only hope (I certainly had the odds!). River was a K. Now I have a set, but of course any T wins. I grit my teeth and bet, and 3bet guy just calls (not that I was afraid of him having a T), along with one or two others. No one has a T! -- 3bet guy had flopped a set of queens. My set of kings wins a huge pot. And he no doubt thinks I'm the biggest donk in the world. It was mighty sweet.

The last two nights there is no poker for me. Both nights after dinner (around 10), my siblings want to play some BJ. And I figure that the table is full anyway -- I'll play with my brother and sister (and mother too) a little and then join the poker game. One night, I also watch my brother-in-law play craps for a while (he loses a little): first time I've ever watched it, and I like to learn. But I do well at the BJ: $50 one night, $40 the other. But both nights when my wimpy siblings decide to go to bed around 11:30, the poker game has already broken up! The last night I ask Lowell, who is cruising around the casino talking about how he has to make some of his money back, what happened. He says he heard that earlier that night there was an incident at the table, so the casino shut it down -- something to do with drinking. One of the dealers who actually knew how to deal and is now dealing on the BJ table confirms that he heard the same thing. Booze was not at all free on the ship, not in the casino, not anywhere, but there was a lot of drinking at the poker table nonetheless. Bummer.

But still -- I won $335 at poker playing about 5 hours. And I won $90 at BJ, which is pretty good considering I had no idea what I was doing at first: I had only played BJ once before. But the people at the table and even the dealers were nice and helpful, telling me what to do at first, and I learned a bit as I played. So overall, I was up $425 for the trip, not too shabby. Rob ended up almost $200 because he didn't play as much. (And of course over $100 of that was MINE! OK, it's all mine, but whatever.)

In sum, I would highly recommend that you go on a cruise. Not only did we have a great time, but it was pretty profitable. Even the clueless dealers were very nice (as were all the staff on the ship), and the players were mostly terrible. And even the better players (that is, the tighter players) didn't seem to understand how to adjust to the loose table. I only wish I had played the last couple of nights.

Wow, this is very very long (ok, that's no surprise coming from me). And I still haven't told you about Lowell, my MOTHER, and the Blackjack Tournament. Or the great family home games on the ship, where I teach my family how to play poker and my eleven-year-old nephew pwns my boyfriend. I think I will have to write another installment, after I post the pictures of the chips I collected on the ship (of course I collected chips -- I'll put them in the Collectible/Casino Gallery). Stay tuned -- or run like hell, your choice!

[bolgenmod]

Cruise ship chip pictures are up. See this thread: http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/chip-c...tml#post299825

(Figured this might get lost in the big report!)

[smoore]

Very cool trip report. My wife and I need a vacation BADLY and neither of us have ever been on a cruise. It sounds like a great time. Would you recommend Carnival? A different line? Which ones take Neteller?

I built my stack up, and then I had a hand that I HATED, not just because I lost. I raised UTG+1 with black Kings, and of course everyone (ok, about 6 of the other 9) called, including Rob in the BB which actually worried me -- Rob knows my game, and earlier that night he'd folded a hand he limped with to my raise (which may or may not have been a mistake). The flop was Q high with 2 hearts, not terrible, not bad. No obvious straight draws. Lowell bets out (which doesn't really worry me: probably has a queen), and I think that raising will not protect my hand: too much money in the pot, and a few have already called the bet. Better to raise the turn, so I just call. Rob calls, which does worry me -- does he have a set? two pair? flush draw? The turn is a J, but Lowell now checks. Checked to me, I bet, Rob and Lowell and the woman, I believe, call. River is a low heart. Damn. But these guys play unsuited high cards (or A or K and crap) more than suited cards, so when it is checked to me, I bet. The woman, Rob, and Lowell all call. I turn over my kings, and the table is astonished that I actually have a hand (of course Lowell had a Q, the woman had pocket 9s, which she called to river with a Q and a J on the board, not to mention whatever I might have!!). But Rob that damn b*stard has the flush -- he called my raise with T5s!!!! I was a little pissed. (OK, a lot.) He said he knew I had a strong hand, but maybe he could win if he hit the board. And he didn't bet his flush because it was only ten-high. But T5 I said later -- even suited that is pure garbage, blah blah blah. He usually plays so tight (too tight actually), but whatever. I hated that hand not just because I lost, but because I thought he knew better.

Rob played this hand perfectly:

"I'm getting 13:1 in my BB and probably closing the action. I don't even need to look at my cards." call.

"Huh, now there's a queen and two hearts, I better look. Hey, cool, 18:1 on a flush draw!" call.

"Well, that didn't get me there but I'm getting 13:1 again and that's a bigass pot!" call.

"Hm, ok... I made it but now Lowell just sat straight up in his seat, I'll check and call a single bet but not two." call.

The only thing I could think about doing differently is donk-betting the river but I'm not very happy if it's three-bet back to me.

[mcc235]

My wife and I went on a Norwegian cruise line cruise in February. Your description of the casino on Carnival is almost identical to the way I would describe Norwegian. Mostly slots, blackjack, roulette, with three poker tables, but only one was ever used. The same 8 or 10 people played each night, and we generally did not have enough players until 11pm.

Norwegian only offered 3/6 with a 10%/$5 max rake. Same soft players and everyone was very friendly. Finished up at the poker table but down at Blackjack so broke even for the week.

We are starting to plan our next cruise, many cruise lines still do not offer poker so you need to check before your book.

[bolgenmod]

Originally Posted by smoore

Very cool trip report. My wife and I need a vacation BADLY and neither of us have ever been on a cruise. It sounds like a great time. Would you recommend Carnival? A different line? Which ones take Neteller?



Rob played this hand perfectly:

"I'm getting 13:1 in my BB and probably closing the action. I don't even need to look at my cards." call.

"Huh, now there's a queen and two hearts, I better look. Hey, cool, 18:1 on a flush draw!" call.

"Well, that didn't get me there but I'm getting 13:1 again and that's a bigass pot!" call.

"Hm, ok... I made it but now Lowell just sat straight up in his seat, I'll check and call a single bet but not two." call.

The only thing I could think about doing differently is donk-betting the river but I'm not very happy if it's three-bet back to me.

Yes, in the light of day I can see him calling PF (and of course he played it correctly after the flop) even with that cr*p getting such good odds. I guess I mostly call with garbage too, but I doubt I would with T5 -- I just don't have the courage to call with any two unless the odds are higher.

As for Carnival -- I would recommend it, but it depends on what you are looking for. It was a very middle-America crowd. And I was surprised at how young most of the people on the ship were. There were a lot of kids in their twenties, many more than I expected. The food was much better than decent (we had a fancy meal that cost extra one night -- $30 each -- and it was outstanding!), and the service was really great. Other cruise lines have the reputation of having a more upscale clientele, but frankly I didn't really care: it was cheap, it was a vacation.

Another thing, the price of the cruise itself can be pretty cheap, but they get you with tips and shore excursions and beverages. Even soda costs extra: I paid $50 to get unlimited soda for the 8 days. We don't drink much, but the booze seemed reasonable enough (my brother thought the beer was too expensive, but I drank some Wild Turkey 101 at about $5 a glass). And they had daily fancy drink specials. The shore excursions were pricy: we went on two during the three shore days and paid about $350 for them (for the both of us). These were not the cheapest, but not at all the most expensive excursions either. And I don't know the "real" price of the cruise because we got a special deal (my sister's husband is an airline pilot), but I understand the basic price is really good, especially in the summer.

One other thing: I thought I remembered you are a smoker (I am too), and you could smoke all over the ship. Not everywhere for the non-smokers reading this, but in a relatively large number of places. Not in the restaurants, of course. The casino was smoking too, but not at the poker table (yes at the BJ table although they did have a non-smoking table too). And of course you could smoke in your cabin. And the duty free cigarettes were sooo cheap -- they only had a few brands, but I'm a Marlboro woman, so I got cartons for $18. Can't beat that with a stick!

It was a great time -- I would highly recommend looking into this or any other vacation. It had been a few years since we had one, and we didn't realize how much we needed one until we were there!

[dad604]

Very informative report. I enjoy reading it.

Playing BJ is easy, just get hold of a basic strategy card. It tells you the best way to play any hand vs dealer's up card. Most of the casinos in Vegas hands them out. The house advantage is under 1% if you use it.

Smoore, for someone 35 years old, Carnival or RCL would be two good cruise lines for that age group. RCL ships are some of the nicest around. I prefer Princess first and Holland because they both have great service and food but the age group are mainly older. I have never been on any NCL ships but I heard from a few friend who have been on them and they are complaint about the service and food.

I don't think any line will take Neteller but your CC is good altho I think they have a max daily limit on your CC. The ship is basically cashless, you get card which is use for everything, key to your room, charge drinks, leaving the ship and re-entering ship, etc, purcasing stuff at the onboard stores, etc.

[mcc235]

Originally Posted by dad604

Smoore, for someone 35 years old, Carnival or RCL would be two good cruise lines for that age group. RCL ships are some of the nicest around. I prefer Princess first and Holland because they both have great service and food but the age group are mainly older. I have never been on any NCL ships but I heard from a few friend who have been on them and they are complaint about the service and food.

I agree with everything dad604 said. Since I was recently on NCL I agree that the service and food is lacking. If you are looking for fun and value for money go with Carnival or RCL. If you are treating yourself to something a little nicer (but with an older crowd) than HAL / Celebrity / Princess would be the way to go.

[smoore]

so did you arrange for your own airfare to the port or did you use the cruise service? We're pretty savvy travellers so if it's much more expensive to get the airfare through the cruise package then we would probably just use expedia or such.

anyone have anything to say about http://www.vacationstogo.com/?

[bolgenmod]

OK, since no one asked, I will finish my trip report. (Somehow typing a long story is more attractive to me than doing laundry or cleaning the house!) I have two more stories that may interest the board, so here goes: another long installment!

The Blackjack Tournament

As I said, my siblings like to play blackjack. The first day at sea, the casino had a blackjack tournament -- $20 entry fee, $500 prize. You start with 1000 chips, have to bet a minimum of 100 a hand, ten hands total. Highest 7 scores go to the final table, plus a wild card drawn from all entries. My brother, sister, mother, and I decided to play, and we all did terrible. My sister and I were on the same table, which was a horrible table: the dealer busted every one of us by the seventh hand! My mother and brother did better, but no where near the leaderboard. Oh well.

The tournament started at 3 or so, and I was getting a massage then, so I gave my ticket for the wild card drawing to my sister, just in case I would be drawn. (Getting a massage is highly recommended, by the way.) After my massage, I went out to the Lido deck (the main sunning and swimming deck), saw my sister-in-law, was talking to her while waiting for Rob who was also getting a massage. And then my mother, brother, and sister appear, laughing and happy. Guess who WON the blackjack tournament -- MY MOTHER!!!

They had picked her ticket for the wild card. Evidentally, this guy (Lowell it turns out -- the one I mentioned before) had had a huge lead throughout. But on the final hand, he blew it: he bet too much. He had enough chips that if he had just made the minimum bet, he would have won. My mother knew this, bet enough to overtake him if she won her hand, did so, and won the tournament! I didn't know it was Lowell when I went to the poker table that night and announced proudly that my mother had won the tournament -- Lowell was at the table (Rob and I both took some pots from him), but he was very nice about it. (I heard others were not so nice: a couple of the final table people had entered more than once -- which was allowed -- in order to get to the FT. Some were a little angry that the wild card noob won.)

Now my mother is not the gambling type AT ALL -- she's actually a bit of an upper-middle-class snob: lives on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, shops for her Armani at Bergdorf's, loves the museums and opera, etc. (She's not rich, but she spends like she is.) I don't believe she has ever been to Vegas in her life, much less a casino anywhere. (She's more the Monte Carlo type.) But there she was in a casino tee-shirt, wearing a casino mardi-gras-like medallion, clutching a tacky trophy and laughing like hell!! ("They MADE me wear the tee-shirt," she said.) My brother-in-law promised to send me the pictures, but he hasn't yet. But here is a (not very good) picture of her at the family poker game so you can see the big gambling winner of the family, the woman Rob started calling Black-Jackie!:




The Big Family Poker Game

So I did do it: I hauled 650 nexgens, plus 50 orange NCV Pharaohs, two setups, dealer buttons, and a cloth on the cruise. My family said I should -- they wanted to learn how to play poker. My brother-in-law has played some home games, but not hold'em; the rest had never really played before. I also brought along some rank of hands cheat sheets, and some printouts of pictures of the chips that I could put denoms on once we decided what to play, so they could know what the chips were worth. I also figured out a tournament structure in case they wanted to play that instead of a ring game (and the reason I brought the Pharaohs, for coloring up if need be). (Yes, I was overly prepared, but whatever.)

Everyone said they wanted to play, but no one could figure out when, so on the second to last sea day, I just set a time and place and told anyone who wanted to play to come.

We set up on a table in the cafe part of the ship, where the buffet food was, and since it was 4, we had no problem with crowding. My eleven-year-old nephew Harry was the most excited: he wanted to play for money from the start, but my sister said we should learn how to play first. (My sister said Harry is a little sharpie: she had a rummage sale recently, and he was selling his old computer games to other kids for $15 each! She expected calls from outraged mothers...) And even though it was not for money, family pride was at stake, so no one (except Harry) played wildly.

We used two decks: I dealt, and Rob shuffled. They were naturally terrible, but whatever. Harry was making wild bets -- raising with no pair, no draw, not even overcards -- but he also was making some good plays. He busted out of course and was upset, so my sister gave him more chips. He then started winning and gloating, so my brother pointed out that no one loves a sore winner. This devasted him: he loves no one more than his uncle. But he seemed to be learning.

Well, everyone had a good time, and they all agreed that we should play again the next day. This time my brother-in-law joined us, and he was pretty good. All of us stayed out of his way when he bet and raised, except of course for Harry: it's only his dad after all. But the best hand EVER was this: Rob, my brother, and Harry call before the flop. Flop is garbage and is checked around. Turn is more garbage, again checked. River is another brick, but now Rob bets. My brother folds. And Harry says, "how much can I raise" -- a question that was often asked, of course. I tell him he can raise to four chips. He puts out the four chips, and Rob folds his QJ (no pair) face up, saying "you got me, I was bluffing." Harry triumphantly turns over his A3 (no pair, but still the best hand) and says "I was bluffing too!!" He says, "I thought if I tried to raise more than I was supposed to, you'd be scared and get out." Everyone laughs and tells him that was a very good play, except my brother who actually folded a pair! PWNED!!

Here is us (well, them) at the table (sorry the pictures aren't so great):

Rob is shuffling, my brother is looking silly, his mother-in-law, my mother

Harry the sharpie has his back to the camera, his father is next to him, his mother (my sister) next to him

My brother-in-law said something about getting some chips, so after the game, Rob and I went to the shop and bought a zip-top tote, put all the nexgens (not the Pharaohs!) in it, and gave the chips to my sister at dinner. Harry was very excited: I suspect he will be teaching his friends and taking their allowances in the near future!!

Well, that's the trip report -- very long and all that. In the interest of amusement, I share these pictures of Rob with a donkey named Oprah, taken in St. Thomas. Rob actually wants a donkey (for no good reason), so he was TOTALLY excited when he saw this donkey. His owner is standing with them in the second picture. (And please note the lipstick on Oprah.)



And even though I look fat (and REALLY hate when women say that!), I give you ....the infamous tankini:

[NanaBanana]

Nice vacation/cruise report Lisa! Glad that you had a great time. And thumbs up to Mom for winning the BJ Tournament!! The pictures are great....I can't wait to go in October. I particularly like the photos of the family poker game...what could be better than having a family game on the ship with all that ambiance, the sea just outside the window, the gentle movement of the ship - ahhh, such peacefulness!

Welcome back!