[Apotome]

I'm not sure if this is the right forum or not, but since this question isn't directly related to organizing the group buy itself, I didn't think it belonged in that new forum.... so here goes.

I'm hoping someone can offer some advice/opinions on what color breakdown I should get for the ASM HorseHead buy. I'm not the type to run larger tournaments or even have a large number of people over to play poker. More than likely I'm never looking to need chips for more than about 6 people, including myself.

Mostly this set would be used for low limit cash games (probably $20 - $40 buyin, though not necessarily even that much). The type of people I play with aren't big gamblers, but a little bit of money does make it at least a little bit interesting.

What I'm most wondering about is the type of poker being played. I'd like a set that isn't just geared to NLHE, but rather could be equally effective for stud or even draw games. That's where I'm wondering if maybe I'm trying to accomplish too much with one small set. Is it even possible to have a good generalized breakdown of chips if you're only getting 400 - 500? That is, a set of chips that works reasonably well regardless of what games we end up playing on any given night?

If I got 400 chips, would 3 colors suffice? And if I got 500, would those extra hundred be an additional color or are they better used to fill out the original 3? Obviously, since these chips have no values on them, the colors can be adjusted at any time based on how much we want them to represent.

And, is it worthwhile making room in this breakdown for a solid color chip, to use as either the lowest or highest value chip? Again if this is the case, how many would be a good number?

As noted, I'm open to any and all thoughts on the subject. I simply can't afford more than about 400 - 500 chips right now, but I do want to get in on the group buy and I do want to maximize the usefullness of what I end up getting. I hope that makes sense.

Thanks in advance,
Allan B.

[jldecarlo]

For six (or even eight) players, 3 denoms is enough. If you add a fourth, I wouldn't get more than 25.

For a cash game,I think you need to look at starting chips, and throw enough higher denoms in for re-buys.

$0.25 x 6 players x 16 chips/player = $4/player/96 chips total
$1 x 6 x 16 = $16/player/96 chips
$5 x 4 x 16 = $20/player/64 chips

So a 100/100/75 breakdown gives you a minimum for a $40 buy-in cash game for 6 players with only 275 chips total. This is assuming quarter-ante. If you play nickel-ante or lower, you will need more chips).

You mention 4-500 chips is your limit.

I personally would do something like 150/200/50 (low,mid,high color) for 400 chips, or 150/250/75/25 with 500 and add a fourth denomination. This will be a very versatile set that would work well for up to 10 players in a cash game or tourney. Witness the power of non-denoms.

L

[CaptLego]

400 to 500 chips should be more than enough for any game with 6 players. Your chips will be non-denoms, so you can play for any stakes. If you start each person with 40 to 50 chips, that's only 300 chips for 6 players, leaving plenty for additional players or rebuys.

So...
If you use 1 color as the small blind or ante, and the 2nd color as 4 or 5x the first
for example color A=.25, color B=$1
Give each player 20 A's = $5 and 15 B's = $15. for a $20 buyin.
That only takes 120 A chips and 90 B chips. You can use chip C=5x chip B (= $5, in this example). 4 chip B's makes a rebuy, so 25 of those chips would let everybody rebuy once.

For a $40 buy-in (better, if the BB is $.50), you could give each person 20 A (.25), 20 B ($1), and 3 C ($5). That's 45 chips totaling $40.

So with 125 color A, 125 color B, and 25 of color C, you'd have plenty of chips for your game. 25 more C's would support 3 rebuys at $40 each. That's only 300 chips so far.

If you want to buy more chips, I'd suggest just getting more of these same colors. You don't really have much use for a fourth color. If you expect to play limit games, you'd probably be best with a lot of chips of the same color. If you want to add more players, you'll need more of all three colors. If you want to support more rebuys, you'll need more of the bigger chips.

For 400 chips, you might try someting like;
A 200
B 150 or 125
C 50 or 75

For 500 chips, how about:
A 250
B 150 or 175
C 100 or 75

[CaptLego]

Originally Posted by jldecarlo

$5 x 4 x 16 = $20/player/64 chips

So a 100/100/75 breakdown gives you a minimum for a $40 buy-in cash game for 6 players with only 275 chips total. This is assuming quarter-ante. If you play nickel-ante or lower, you will need more chips).
L

A minor typo here... you mean:
$5 x 6 x 4=$20/player/24 chips.

So 100/100/25 would serve this distribution for a $40 buy-in for 6 players.
Adding 50 more $5 chips would support 6 rebuys, and you still only be at 275 chips total.

[Apotome]

Originally Posted by CaptLego

400 to 500 chips should be more than enough for any game with 6 players. Your chips will be non-denoms, so you can play for any stakes. If you start each person with 40 to 50 chips, that's only 300 chips for 6 players, leaving plenty for additional players or rebuys.

Basically, my thinking is that this will be my set of chips until I can afford a larger set of ASM customs with inserts. Therefore, I want to make sure I buy enough of the HH chips, but don't go overboard. So I want to buy a reasonable minimum numer of chips but not be sitting there some night with 400 chips saying, "gee, if I'd only ordered 100 more of these when I had the opportunity."

Originally Posted by CaptLego

If you want to buy more chips, I'd suggest just getting more of these same colors. You don't really have much use for a fourth color. If you expect to play limit games, you'd probably be best with a lot of chips of the same color. If you want to add more players, you'll need more of all three colors. If you want to support more rebuys, you'll need more of the bigger chips.

This is an interesting way of looking at it, and seems like good advice.

Originally Posted by CaptLego

For 400 chips, you might try someting like;
A 200
B 150 or 125
C 50 or 75

Now, interestingly jldecarlo offered this breakdown earlier for 400:

Originally Posted by jldecarlo

150/200/50 (low,mid,high color)

Is there a solid reason one way or the other about buying more of the low chips vs. more of the mid chips? I'm not trying to say either of you is right or wrong, just pointing out the difference in the advice offered and asking if there's something I can consider that would help me make up my own mind.

Thanks!
Allan

[Apotome]

Originally Posted by jldecarlo

I personally would do something like 150/200/50 (low,mid,high color) for 400 chips, or 150/250/75/25 with 500 and add a fourth denomination. This will be a very versatile set that would work well for up to 10 players in a cash game or tourney. Witness the power of non-denoms.

Yes, I somehow thought non-denoms made this decision a bit easier, or at least offered more flexibility in the options.

I think the biggest decision (if I add a fourth color) will be whether or not to go with a solid color vs. a spotted one. Part of me wants a bit of variation and part of me wants the consistency of a completely spotted set. Damn my Libra indecisiveness.

Thanks fo the input... I appreciate everyone's comments!

Allan

[CaptLego]

Originally Posted by Apotome

Is there a solid reason one way or the other about buying more of the low chips vs. more of the mid chips? I'm not trying to say either of you is right or wrong, just pointing out the difference in the advice offered and asking if there's something I can consider that would help me make up my own mind.

Thanks!
Allan

Well, since these are non-denoms, it doesn't make much difference. You can play any color as any denom. But if you wanted to keep them in a traditional color progression (e.g. white<red<green, for example), then it might affect your purchase decision.

I went with the larger number of low denom because I like to give each person as many chips as possible for the initial rounds or small bets. In my friendly games, we all usually like to limp alot. If we're playing dealer's choice, we still use a lot of the low denoms. Also, I was thinking about limit games, where you need a lot of the low denom chip. If we're playing tourneys, by the time the blinds raise enough to make the mid-denom chip the main chip, some players have been eliminated so the mid-denom chips are somewhat consolidated and each person still has plenty of those.

A distribution like jld's that is weighted a bit more for the mid-denom is better if you play tourneys, because you need some extras of that denom to color-up the small chips. You'll see in his starting breakdown that he gives each person the same # of small and medium denom chips. The extra medium denoms are for color-ups. They also provide a bit more total $ in the set, so you could support more rebuys, or bigger buy-ins relative to the ante/blinds.

For small tourneys, I've never felt the need to color up.

Again, the beauty of non-denoms is the flexibility so you could use your largest stack as either the low or mid denom. Similarly, you could use your smallest quantity chip as the small blind in a limit game, or as the big $ chip for no-limit, color ups, or rebuys.

BTW: I can definitely relate to your Libra indecisiveness ops:

[jldecarlo]

Originally Posted by Apotome

Is there a solid reason one way or the other about buying more of the low chips vs. more of the mid chips? I'm not trying to say either of you is right or wrong, just pointing out the difference in the advice offered and asking if there's something I can consider that would help me make up my own mind.

To me, the smallest value chip is mostly there to ante with, make change with, and give everybody a pretty big stack. It is easier and more efficient to use the higher value chips most of the time. They count and stack quicker.
OTOH, small chips make big stacks like they have on TV.

Again, the beauty of non-denoms is that you can use your denom with the most chips as the smallest, medium, or highest value as the whim strikes you.

L

[Apotome]

Originally Posted by jldecarlo

To me, the smallest value chip is mostly there to ante with, make change with, and give everybody a pretty big stack. It is easier and more efficient to use the higher value chips most of the time. They count and stack quicker.
OTOH, small chips make big stacks like they have on TV.

And there's nothing wrong with a big stack, even if you're not on TV.

Originally Posted by jldecarlo

Again, the beauty of non-denoms is that you can use your denom with the most chips as the smallest, medium, or highest value as the whim strikes you.

My other problem is that I'm mentally stuck with the 'standard' color combos for lower denon chips (white, red, green, black). But I'm thinking that while I 'm going to try and work out my numerical breakdowns now I might wait until the colors are all decided upon and then pic 3 (maybe 4) colors from those available simply based on what might look good as a set together. In other words, I may not end up with white, red and green but may end up with red, yellow and blue.... who knows? But as you rightly point out, the colors aren't hard coded to any one value and can change at any time.

Thanks again,
AB

[Matthew]

Some suggestions and makes for even storage in racks

For 300 chips - 100, 160, 40 - 3 colors

For 400 chips - 100, 200, 80, 20 - 4 colors

For 500 chips - 140, 200, 120, 40 - 4 colors

Gives flexibility.

Matt